I am going to build a CNC machine, What do I buy?

[My Old Landy]

Just a question, why black and yellow for 240v on the power supply instead of the brown/blue harmonised power?

 

[northwest]

Just a question, why black and yellow for 240v on the power supply instead of the brown/blue harmonised power?

Well, the first reason is, I did not know that, Spanners n Hammers me, I am not a spark.

Secondly, I was going to use black and red, but they had no red in 1.0mm so I got yellow instead, sort of like a custard colour.

Finally, if I get it to work it will be a miracle so I am not really concentrating on colours, more functionality, sort of "function over form" the antithesis of Form over Function

Besides, I only have four colours, .75mm in two colours and two colours in 1.0mm so some of the motor wiring is going to be interesting. I am going to get a roll of green though for the erfs. I might even have to buy it

 

[My Old Landy]

Well, the first reason is, I did not know that, Spanners n Hammers me, I am not a spark.

Secondly, I was going to use black and red, but they had no red in 1.0mm so I got yellow instead, sort of like a custard colour.

Finally, if I get it to work it will be a miracle so I am not really concentrating on colours, more functionality, sort of "function over form" the antithesis of Form over Function

Besides, I only have four colours, .75mm in two colours and two colours in 1.0mm so some of the motor wiring is going to be interesting. I am going to get a roll of green though for the erfs. I might even have to buy it

No worries, I design control panels for a living, the only reason I asked

 

[minimutly]

Ok, is the spindle motor an induction motor controlled via a VFD or is it something else?
PMDX are top notch breakouts, all I ever used back in the day, well with the exception of the CNC Building blocks ones I had on the lathe as they could output differential step/dir signals and also had an index homing feature, sadly they are no longer made.
I sold all my breakouts etc to @MCKDAVID a while back, not sure if he used them or not.

I think the PMDX my friend had (possibly still has) was a PMDX 122 which doesn't have spindle control onboard other than relays for on/off, so no speed control but if you already have that then it may be suitable.
For stepper drives I used Geckos mostly but on the coil winder I used Leadshine stepper drives and they were of decent quality and seemed as good as the Geckos with the exception they were about 4x bigger than the Geckos.

I just threw out a Via Pico computer a few weeks ago It was tiny but worked well, I still use one on the Beaver mill.

BTW personally I would be looking at a CSMIO/IP-M instead of SmothStepper/breakouts.
The IP-M is 4 axis, has analogue output for spindles, has analogue inputs for override pots etc and all I/O is 24v, also no need for a breakout board as it is all opto isolated and connects to the PC via ethernet. I think @MCKDAVID ended up going that route with his plasma.

I really apologise for the threadjack, but here is where the answers are!
Re the cmsio/ip-m, one like this on ebay at the mo?
193833625568

Ok, is the spindle motor an induction motor controlled via a VFD or is it something else?
PMDX are top notch breakouts, all I ever used back in the day, well with the exception of the CNC Building blocks ones I had on the lathe as they could output differential step/dir signals and also had an index homing feature, sadly they are no longer made.
I sold all my breakouts etc to @MCKDAVID a while back, not sure if he used them or not.

I think the PMDX my friend had (possibly still has) was a PMDX 122 which doesn't have spindle control onboard other than relays for on/off, so no speed control but if you already have that then it may be suitable.
For stepper drives I used Geckos mostly but on the coil winder I used Leadshine stepper drives and they were of decent quality and seemed as good as the Geckos with the exception they were about 4x bigger than the Geckos.

I just threw out a Via Pico computer a few weeks ago It was tiny but worked well, I still use one on the Beaver mill.

BTW personally I would be looking at a CSMIO/IP-M instead of SmothStepper/breakouts.
The IP-M is 4 axis, has analogue output for spindles, has analogue inputs for override pots etc and all I/O is 24v, also no need for a breakout board as it is all opto isolated and connects to the PC via ethernet. I think @MCKDAVID ended up going that route with his plasma.

one like this?

CSMIO-IP/M CNC Motion Controller for Mach3/4 | eBay

You can download Plugins for Mach3 & 4 from the CSLabs website - and there's a decent manual too. The Manual is specific to Mach3, but it's sufficiently similar to Mach4 that setting up is straightforward.

www.ebay.co.uk

 

[Hood]

Aye, that is the CSMIO/IP-M
Not sure if it much of a saving over buying new. Zapp has it for £276 incl VAT, not sure how much post would be.
Also not sure how much it would be buying direct, @northwest may be able to say. Only thing to be wary of is he got his days before the 1st Jan so...

EDIT
See Zapp don't have any in stock so it would be coming direct from Poland anyway.

 

[minimutly]

Search to see what other people have used. Early interacts used big stepper motors, with later ones moving onto 1KW DC servos.
However bridgeport size, you'd be looking at Nema34 steppers (ideally with high voltage drives to maximise performance), or probably 750-1000W servos. Personally, unless you're really going for as cheap as possible and aren't bothered about performance, I'd go servo.

To give an idea of prices, looking at Lichuan - Lichuan CNC Servo Factory Store - Amazing prodcuts with exclusive discounts on AliExpress

2phase 10Nm Nema 34 stepper with 80VDC drive is $91 - 10nm cnc stepper motor driver manufacturer MC856 4A nema34 stepper motor kit 2phase LC86HS2801|stepper motor kit|nema34 steppernema34 stepper motor - AliExpress
3phase 6Nm Nema 34 with mains voltage drive is $142 - 3 phase stepper motion controller LC3722A nema34 stepper driver 6nm 3.0A cnc stepping motor LC3913 H|cnc stepping motor|step motornema34 stepper - AliExpress

Most common steppers are 2 phase, but 3 phase steppers are smoother in operation. You could also use a 2 phase Nema34 with high voltage drives (leadshine do them). The issue with stepper motors, is the rated torque is only available at stall speed. As speed increases, the torque drops off, and high voltage drives reduce the level of torque drop off.

Then there are the closed loop stepper options.
2 phase 10Nm with 70VAC/100VDC drive is $116 - 2 phase 10Nm hybrid stepper servo kit 1416Oz in Nema 34 closed loop step motor with 5m encoder cable for lathe polisher grinder|step motor|nema 34hybrid stepper - AliExpress
3 phase 9Nm wiuth mains voltage drive is $201 - 9Nm 3 phase Nema 34 closed loop stepper servo motor driver kit AC220V digital easy servo driver LCDA2260H and motor LC86H3129|nema 34|nema 34 closed loopclosed loop - AliExpress

But all those options will suffer from torque reduction, which limits maximum speed.

Moving onto servos-
750W 90 frame size servo $212 - Lichuan 90st M02430 for 750W servo motor flange 90 size with servo driver kit 3000rpm 2.4Nm AC servo drive ac servo motor kit|AC Motor| - AliExpress
1.2Kw 110 frame size servo $280 - AC motor 220v for 1.2KW servo motor with driver kit 110ST M04030B flange110 4Nm servomotor 3000rpm use in CNC plasma cut machine|AC Motor| - AliExpress

I've listed two sizes of servos, as the bigger one may be a better match for a heavier machine.


In terms of pros and cons of all the options.
The stepper options are easier to fit, and connect. They all use screw terminals for all the connections.
The servo drives use D-sub connectors for signal/control wiring, so you either have to solder them (the drives come with empty shells), or spend extra for suitable breakout boards.

Mains drives you just need to connect mains power. The lower voltage options will either require either a transformer (if they take AC input), or a suitable DC PSU.

The steppers you'll likely get better performance by going for the larger torque options, and direct coupling them. Milling machines don't really need maximum speed, but if this was something like a high speed router, I'd say go for smaller steppers and gear them, as you'll get better acceleration/performance that way - bigger isn't always better for stepper motor performance!
Servos, I'd run via a 2:1 belt reduction. The servos will spin far faster, and maintain full torque over their rated speed range, so to get most performance out them, you need to gear them.

The reason I picked Lichuan for the above examples, is I've dealt with them, and they were very helpful, although I actually ordered via Alibaba, as I needed a couple custom options.
I also know somebody who now mostly uses their products for building machines, as he can't fault their prices, products, or service. If you want to see manuals, their website is Shenzhen Xinli Chuan Electric Co., Ltd. (xlichuan.com)

Another useful post here. I would suggest, as is indicated above, that a miller x and y doesn't need anything fast to move it, other than if changing cutters at the end of a sequence (I wouldn't even know if this happens, but I guess it does?). And then, if the steppers give adequate torque at low speed, would you direct drive them, or belt drive, which could improve packaging at least? This question applies to servos too - why would you need 3000rpm?

 

[minimutly]

Not a bad thing at all and it is a very capable wee controller.
Sadly not capable of rigid tapping but with careful programming and a floating holder it should be possible.

I probably would have put an IP-M on the plasma if I hadn't already had the IP-S left over from the wee lathe that I was using to experiment with. Then again I use a lot of I/O and the IP-M can't be expanded sadly, it is a shame that they don't allow using the expansion modules and the Enc module (needed for rigid tapping and single point lathe threading) but I suppose they have their reasons.

Expansion socket fitted? Enough thread jacking for one day I think.

 

[Hood]

Another useful post here. I would suggest, as is indicated above, that a miller x and y doesn't need anything fast to move it, other than if changing cutters at the end of a sequence (I wouldn't even know if this happens, but I guess it does?). And then, if the steppers give adequate torque at low speed, would you direct drive them, or belt drive, which could improve packaging at least? This question applies to servos too - why would you need 3000rpm?

You soon get tired of slow rapids even just on a smallish sized part, it would amaze you the difference in time to machine something between a machine with fast rapids/accel than one with slow.

3000rpm servo may actually be too slow in some applications, for instance with a 3000rpm servo geared 1:1 on a machine with 5mm pitch ballscrews then your max rapid would be 15m/min. That is a lot for the likes of a knee mill but for a VMC that is not fast. My 35 yr old Chiron does 20m/min rapids.

 

[Hood]

Expansion socket fitted? Enough thread jacking for one day I think.

Yes although on the IP-M the only expansion possible is the MPG module, well worth it in my opinion to have one.
The bigger brothers of the IP-M, namely the IP-S and IP-A can be expanded quite a bit, Enc module for rigid tapping and lathe threading. MPG module and I think something like 16x extra I/O modules.

 

[eSCHEn]

And look what I have just found
Looking for a USB cable of all things and there it was in the bottom of the basket that has computer cables

50V secondaries though so probably too high for @northwest anyway if my recollection is right.

View attachment 270553

Glad you found it and I definitely would have remembered as nice as toroidal as that coming into my hands

 

[northwest]

See Zapp don't have any in stock so it would be coming direct from Poland anyway.

Yes, I ordered mine direct from Poland the Monday right after Christmas because: Zapp don't have stock and I just wasn't going to take any chances after the 1st. It was with me on the Wednesday, I was really impressed. Oh yes, it cost me £270 delivered.

I have spent the last month with the biggest wiring job I have ever done and it is very interesting, but I am stuck a bit on a few points but a couple of people have offered to help with different things so looking forward to a bit more progress next week.

 

[northwest]

Earth.

Now, I am using a "star earth" where all the earth wires will go back to one single point, so I have installed this one single earth block and bolted it to the backplane, is this correct?



Meanwhile, the build is moving on:



I just need to work out the settings for the stepper drivers and what the connections really mean.

 

[Hood]

That should be fine. Normally I just use din rail earth terminals as they do the same thing. In reality noise should not be too much of an issue anyway due to the controller you have. All I/O is 24v with the exception of the Step/Dir signals and they are differential and thus fairly noise immune anyway.

 

[northwest]

Well, this is the one that has been bothering me, I know what the PUL+ PUL- DIR+ DIR- and the A and B +and - are and the power connections. The ENA connections I can ignore as they are for a servo drive.

It is the ALM BR and COM connections I cannot work out. They are marked OutI/O in the picture:

 

[Hood]

What drives are they so I can look at the manual.

 

[northwest]

They are EMS 542S drives. They are the "latest and greatest" apparently with "lots of features" which is probably tech speak for "very overcomplicated" :-)

Having said that, they come highly recommended and the real thing, not some half rice half electronic copy of something.

 

[m_c]

You'll want to connect them to an input on the CS-xxx, which I think may have a dedicated alarm/fault input?

In those two diagrams above, you'll want to treat the CS input as the load, and wire accordingly.

 

[minimutly]

Someone I know rebuilt a cnc mill (bridgeport something) that had a dead controller. I asked him what he'd used - one of these apparently:-
Now that's boogard it, I've yet to find out why 6 axes.

 

[Hood]

That is what I have on my Chiron, also have one for sale presently. It is analogue command though so only any use if you have servo drives capable of +/- 10v command rather than Step/Dir.
Most industrial machines are analogue command and it is excellent for retrofitting them with Mach3.

 

[minimutly]

That is what I have on my Chiron, also have one for sale presently. It is analogue command though so only any use if you have servo drives capable of +/- 10v command rather than Step/Dir.
Most industrial machines are analogue command and it is excellent for retrofitting them with Mach3.

So you have to buy servo drives - assuming you don't have them fitted? I'd appreciate if you could pm me a price, and your best bet on prices for servos?
Thanks.