How often do water meters go wrong?

[Fraserb]

so do you think the water board is going to take over mains piping over someone elses property until it gets to your house boundary and fit a meter there ?

it wont and why should they be responsible for new pipe being laid on someone elses land just to get to the new owners boundary that they bought

untill reb shows a picture of the layout of the land his boundarys and the farmers boundarys and the drive he uses to get to the property he owns

showing the meter, mains

i do believe reb posted something similer last time

Theres no way the water board will take over the pipe and fit a new meter, as has been said after their meter its your responsibility. Also as I think you mentioned it's likely to be a pipe tee'd off or another leak.

 

[brightspark]

why not fit a pressure gauge in between the water boards meter and yours .while its pressurised shut the feed off both ends and see if theres a drop if so its a leak if not and still holds poss a faulty meter. just buy one and fit it next to the waterboards meter then you have 3 to check they cant all be wrong if there's is faulty and you have no leaks it can be proved

 

[gaz1]

the answer is in rebs comments alone

these are all of them which is important the mains pipe crosses not just 1 farmers fields but 2 farmer fields

I posted a while back about leaks in our rather long supply pipe from the water main. The supply pipe is ~1.5 miles from the water main and therefore the main water meter to our property. We think we have fixed all of the leaks.

To try to get a better handle on future problems, we have installed a second water meter as the supply pipe enters our property. The meter by the water main (the one the water company use) is consistently reading 200 litres per day more than the one where the pipe enters our property.

When we discovered this, the first thought was that there was another large leak on the supply pipe. BUT investigations where we have exposed and put stop taps into the supply pipe in various points show that with the water turned off for 6+ hours, next to no use is registered at the meter by the water main. At 200 litres a day difference between the meters you would expect a change of 50 litres over six hours if it was due to a leak. Turning the water off as it enters our property today, the meter moved 6 litres in that time - settling in the long pipe run (?) or a potential small leak (?), but nowhere near 50 litres??

We ran a test this evening and ran 20 litres of water and the meter we installed at our end of the pipe turned and registered 20 litres. So does anyone know - how often do water meters fail and over read?? I believe we can pay to have it tested but I just wondered what the likelihood of a fault was before I went down that route?

To answer both of these. It runs across a verge, then a garden, then farmer 1’s fields then farmer 2’s fields then back onto farmer 1’s fields then onto our property. Farmer 1 has been incredibly helpful digging holes and helping us replace pipes. There are three stop taps on his land currently. Turning the top two off see’s no movement in the meter over 6 hours. Turning the bottom one off yesterday saw the 6 litres of movement - but as above that was a lot less than we expected if it was a 200 litre a day leak - this would be the section to concentrate on though.

There are definitely no troughs or houses tee’d into this - we have looked closely at everything that could be like that!

The thousands it will cost!! The water company arent going to voluntarily run a new main 2 miles (on the road) to my house or voluntarily take responsibility for the current supply pipe!!! A borehole will cost £5-£6k so none of this is a realistic option! I have asked them to review this situation but unfortunately they work slowly and covid19 doesnt make this urgent for them.

 

[reb78]

Thanks Fraser and Gaz - thats exactly the situation. I have asked them to review it, but they have told me nothing will happen until after lockdown and I very very much doubt they will move anything.

I would post a google earth image up showing the route, but am not keen on doing it on a public forum as its lots of info about where we live etc. I dont know of a good way of illustrating this without sticking personal info on the site.

 

[premmington]

They usually stop turning or leak, over reading would be a difficult fault as they are mechanical devices, the turbine turns the counter to read what is used.
It sounds like a leak or a second connection on your main

Plus one for the above.


I too have never seen a "over reading" water meter - the turbine in them has gears - you cannot loose the gearing to make them go faster.

They either seize and slow down or freeze when the rota snaps off.

 

[gaz1]

@Kayos

reb78 you are responsible to run a new plastic pipe to the main road if you want to do all 1 1/2 miles of it

there the water board will connect your new main up

however you need to ask consent of farmer 1 and 2 to dig there land for the new mains going in

the water board will leave both connections on if a new pipe is piped in

its the only way to be sure no leaks on the pipe you can preasure test the new pipe before install

farmer 1 or 2 may have another main i suspect not

you need to provide a photo of above the property

sorry if this is bad news i believe kayos will say the same

the only pipe you can renew is your boundary to your house property

water board is not responsible for the mains once it entered someones else boundary the fathers /farmers property water board will not enterain you on this subject

 

[reb78]

@Kayos

reb78 you are responsible to run a new plastic pipe to the main road if you want to do all 1 1/2 miles of it

there the water board will connect your new main up

however you need to ask consent of farmer 1 and 2 to dig there land for the new mains going in

the water board will leave both connections on if a new pipe is piped in

its the only way to be sure no leaks on the pipe you can preasure test the new pipe before install

farmer 1 or 2 may have another main i suspect not

you need to provide a photo of above the property

sorry if this is bad news i believe kayos will say the same

the only pipe you can renew is your boundary to your house property

water board is not responsible for the mains once it entered someones else boundary the fathers /farmers property water board will not enterain you on this subject

I agree with all of that (I am not sure I have contradicted it - others have suggested the water board will happily take on the pipe not me). Both farmers are ok with me accessing and digging their land too. The only thing i am trying to do first is see if i can fix the existing pipe as its a huge job to lay a completely new run.

Farmer 1 has a main connection that is switched off next to ours - but they have a borehole so don't use it.

 

[Gareth J]

Few thoughts. Have you fitted a prv near to the wb's meter? Once all this is sorted, I'd do it if not already.

If you end up laying a new pipe, get it mole ploughed in. Unless the ground is ultra rocky, it'll be a fraction the cost and upheaval of trenching. And the farmers will be more up for that. You'll need to hire a bigger machine to do the pulling, but over that distance, it'll be well worth it.

Many, including the water company, probably, will suggest it needs to be trenched and layed in sand. It's better, but not essential (ground dependent).

 

[reb78]

My understanding was the official water board meter is at the main, then theres 1.5 miles of pipe from the meter to the property, they've found leaks in the pipe so decided to fit their own meter at their property to keep an eye on things, currently theres 200 lt a day difference between the meters so there either another leak, a pipe tapped off for a trough or something or 1 of the meters is wrong.

Sorry - I missed this - this is exactly right

 

[gaz1]

it will be far quicker too buy all your pipes and fittingsthan try to find pipes or even fittings thats leaking

1 Miles to Meters = 1609.344
2 Miles to Meters = 3218.688

you can buy it in 150m lengths

https://www.pipestock.com/mdpe/mdpe...MI_9L_5uzs6AIVL4BQBh3_xgm2EAAYASABEgJraPD_BwE

id try supplier/maker for cheaper price

id use the farmers hoe in one complete drag from your house right up the the roadside

 

[knighty]

no idea who your local water boar dis... but northumbrian water and wave are both a total waste of space for me....

I've ended up with 2 water meters, about 6ft apart, one just outside and one just inside... the outside meter turns faster than the inside one... they came and replaced both meters... same thing outside one going faster... all I get from them is that the outside meter is now my meter and anything my side of it is my problem... but my meter has always been the inside one!

they constant'y hassle me about bills (I only pay going by the inside meter)... now every time they hassle me I reply saying take me to court... and they shut up for a couple of months then start again :-(

 

[gaz1]

that would say theres a leak between the meters caused by installation

 

[Fraserb]

We actually had 2 different water problems at work last year, first one we were convinced was a water board problem, got them out and turned out to be a problem our side but they were still happy to help us find our issue, second one was a seized meter so definitely their problem. Both times scottish water were good to deal with, I dont know if us being a big user helped though.

 

[Shox Dr]

So whts thedifference if you have a property with a meter in the rd.

Tell me why the water board will just voluntarily move the meter and take on maintenance of a section of pipe they currently don't have or want any responsibility for??

An again, have you asked them?

 

[Fraserb]

So whts thedifference if you have a property with a meter in the rd.


An again, have you asked them?

Im with @reb78 the water board wont take on 1.5 miles of unknown pipework or install 1.5 miles of their own.

Round here I know of 2 farms that have been developed in both cases the water main is a good distance away and the developer has to run a seperate pipe for each property from the main, water board wan't to install their meter as close as possible to the main so they've the minimum of pipework to be responsible for.

 

[reb78]

So whts thedifference if you have a property with a meter in the rd.


An again, have you asked them?

I give up. Yes I have, and I am awaiting a response - please read what I have posted previously - post 44, COVID19 means they are not coming out as this is not a priority for them. However, as said by myself and Gaz and Fraser, I cannot see any way they will do what you are suggesting!!!

 

[reb78]

Few thoughts. Have you fitted a prv near to the wb's meter? Once all this is sorted, I'd do it if not already.

If you end up laying a new pipe, get it mole ploughed in. Unless the ground is ultra rocky, it'll be a fraction the cost and upheaval of trenching. And the farmers will be more up for that. You'll need to hire a bigger machine to do the pulling, but over that distance, it'll be well worth it.

Many, including the water company, probably, will suggest it needs to be trenched and layed in sand. It's better, but not essential (ground dependent).

There is a PRV at our end I beleive - the farmer said his father fitted it when they laid the line initially - that said, I havent seen it.

Ground is rocky, like really rocky - East Cornwall in the Tamar Valley. Much of the pipe on farmer 1's land is laid in sand. Some isn't though - we know from where we dug it up.

 

[roblane65]

september last year did a job in the wilds and had to connect soil to a septic tank whilst doing the trech we hit a live unkown water pipe apprantly going nowhere . back down the road turned off the house supply at meter and low and behold this also stopped the unkown pipe. Turns out lovely Mr farmer that did the development also teed into that supply to feed a cattle trough some 7-800 m away in the bottom field no where near view of the site.

 

[gaz1]

Cant help but say, if you had fitted a meter IN YOUR PROPERTY when it was suggested, you would not have this problem now
.

What is stopping you

he fitted one makes no difference water board do not class that meter as true due to it going over 2 land owners propertys that used to be one property

Why on earth do you think the pipe needs to be moved or replaced?
Have the water board told you this?

As other have told you. You are only responsible AFTER the meter. So if its in your house what happens before is irrelevant.

Is there more to this than you are telling us?

refernece part one negates your post only if the meter was fitted on your side of the boundary from the main road would this be effective

So whats thedifference if you have a property with a meter in the rd.

An again, have you asked them?

asking them makes no difference and i really cant see where your going with this

i will give you an example 3 propertys are on the same line the first line takes water off the other 2 as first in line to the mains preasure

2nd house is complaining and 3rd house gets dribbles really not happy with it

complaines to water board yet water board says not our problem it passes 2 boundarys before your property we will not fit a water meter on your side of the boundary as its on your property

alternative 3rd house has to fit new mains pipe in chosing 20mm or 25mm for better flow on asking water board they are fine to connect this new line into the mains also expect a water meter being fitted

3rd house needs consent off of both partys to cross there land to connect to a new water supply it can and does get interesting if one party says no you cannot dig into my land

? shox dr what makes you think you can negate what the main road meter is saying to one that you have installed onto your own house property after it has come down your drive way into your house

https://www.ofwat.gov.uk/nonhouseholds/supply-and-standards/responsibility-supply-pipes/

 

[the snooper]

Fill up loads of containers to use for as long as you can, then turn the mains off again for as long as you can, put an empty container under an open tap then wait, if someone has teed it off you soon know when they turn it back on to use and when they do you'll have some water in the container