GT40 build

[dobbslc]

@Fastdruid
That's a lovely looking job, I'm a little bit jealous here as I really was hoping to get myself a GT40 a some point but the money has gone on the house and I can't really afford to build the double garage/workshop I wanted to put it in
Nice easy access to do the cam belt in that last photo
I didn't realize putting a Yota lump in them was a thing! I'm assuming it's far cheaper and probably more reliable than an old Ford V8?
@Nick DV you nutter! A Surf doesn't exactly handle well with 130bhp up its chuff! 300 odd will be interesting!!!

 

[fizzy]

1uz FTMFW!

needs a pair of turbos

Nah
Superchargers are much nicer!
I was lucky enough to have a Jag XFR for a while. 510bhp - instant response no lag and sounded awesome!

 

[Fastdruid]

Nah
Superchargers are much nicer!
I was lucky enough to have a Jag XFR for a while. 510bhp - instant response no lag and sounded awesome!

That has also been done with a 1UZ in a GT40.

The issue I'd have however is that the engine would need to sit lower to have enough clearance for the supercharger pulley and that would mean a new gearbox, new adaptor etc as well as going dry sump and all that entails. A lot of expensive (re)work. Twin turbos would be cheaper and easier. Although not entirely easy as there is very, very little room to play with!

Still, people have stuck a twin turbo 1UZ in an F40 replica and there are a few turbo GT40's out there. For example this twin turbo v6.

 

[Nick DV]

@Nick DV you nutter! A Surf doesn't exactly handle well with 130bhp up its chuff! 300 odd will be interesting!!!

"Interesting" indeed, but lots of fun

 

[dobbslc]

I've had a few instances where I've been looking through the side windows to see where I'm going

 

[Bullet2012]

I've had a few instances where I've been looking through the side windows to see where I'm going

You need to use a different taxi firm

 

[Fastdruid]

@Fastdruid
That's a lovely looking job, I'm a little bit jealous here as I really was hoping to get myself a GT40 a some point but the money has gone on the house and I can't really afford to build the double garage/workshop I wanted to put it in
Nice easy access to do the cam belt in that last photo
I didn't realize putting a Yota lump in them was a thing! I'm assuming it's far cheaper and probably more reliable than an old Ford V8?
@Nick DV you nutter! A Surf doesn't exactly handle well with 130bhp up its chuff! 300 odd will be interesting!!!

Thanks for the kind words.

Yes, the centre panel is removable which actually give very good access to the front of the engine. Not that I should have to replace the cam belt on it for many years. Intervals I think are every ~60k, given that's probably 10 years in my daily and I'll be lucky to manage more than a few k/year I'm more likely to hit time limits on it!

Still not easy though as there is very little room, seats do fold forwards but can't then get in the car and it's too much of a reach otherwise so I would have to take the back off both of them.

Engine choice, well it *had* to be a v8. That was absolutely a major part of what the car is and hence just not something I was prepared to compromise on.

Being honest if I was in the US it would be a no brainer to go SBF, in the UK they're obviously not as common and you're looking at an engine that needs a complete rebuild for £500, a recon one from £3k or a crate engine from about £5k (but that then still needs a bunch of parts). Many builders have had all sorts of issues with their engine builds and I was keen to avoid that. The geriatric RV8 was a popular choice for replicas "back in the day" but being honest they don't make good power unless you spend a fortune on them (and these days are actually pretty expensive). Not totally written off as an option but unlikely to find a decent enough one cheaply enough to make it worth it, at which point you may as well go with an SBF in the first place. The LS (as in GM not Lexus LS400) equally is a very popular choice in the US for all sorts of builds as it gives very good power, is compact and ubiquitous. Easy and cheap to get hold of. Over here again however they're relatively rare, comparatively expensive and because in a "Ford" replica seen as even more sacrilegious than other (non-Ford) options.

So, at this point I was on rather a stricter budget and had the laudable aim of wanting an engine that made about 300hp as stock and would "just run". ie no modification or rebuilds required. I also desired a DOHC instead of a pushrod engine but again, nothing was entirely fixed in stone. For IVA reasons I desired a pre 1992 engine to make my life easier for emissions.

This brought me to a short list of three options I considered:
BMW M60B40; They're not known for reliability, physically big, awkward sump and hard to tune. Newer ones massively expensive and even worse for reliability.
Audi V8; Massively big advantage that they bolt straight up to a 01E gearbox but later ones hard to get running as (at the time) no aftermarket ECU's worked on them. Expensive in comparison to other options.
Lexus/Toyota 1UZ. Reliable, physically small for a 4l v8. Relatively cheap. Bit low powered and hard to tune unless turbo'd. Easy to get running. Has the advantage of being the exact same firing order as the SBF.

I was still considering an SBF or RV8 if one came up for the right price but it was then really down to what came up for sale and that turned out to be a 1UZ which I bought for the sum of £300 complete with wiring & ECU. Just missing AC (which I wanted) and power steering pump (which I didn't).

Since then although I've committed to the 1UZ I have been on the look out for a cheap dead 302 block so I can make up engine mounts for it so that if I *do* change my mind it would be easy.

 

[PhillipM]

I mean it's kinda fortunate the dizzy ran into things, now you get to hear the glorious noise from ITBs

Nah
Superchargers are much nicer!
I was lucky enough to have a Jag XFR for a while. 510bhp - instant response no lag and sounded awesome!

That's the same supercharger I've strapped to the side of a 2 litre

 

[daleyd]

Amazing work @Fastdruid I’m loving it!

 

[fizzy]

Superchargers are safer than turbos - the lag can be very dodgy on a wet bend. Toyota Supra twin turbo auto almost killed me when they spooled up. Can't dip the clutch on an auto either.

 

[PhillipM]

I mean a lot of that can be mapped out with anyone decent enough to do a lot of work on your throttle position vs torque output. Even easier these days with drive by wire throttles around so the ECU can just close the throttles as they spool up a bit.

 

[slim_boy_fat]

ust in case anyone is curious as to what that kind of setup will sound like....

Into an MX5? A bit of a squeeze, that......

 

[Jaffman]

Nah
Superchargers are much nicer!
I was lucky enough to have a Jag XFR for a while. 510bhp - instant response no lag and sounded awesome!

You’re wrong, but I won’t hold that against you

Turbocharged > supercharged
Every single day of the week

 

[minimutly]

You’re wrong, but I won’t hold that against you

Turbocharged > supercharged
Every single day of the week

You're both very wrong. The best setup would be twincharged, with the turbo blowing into the 'charger....

 

[Fastdruid]

You’re wrong, but I won’t hold that against you

Turbocharged > supercharged
Every single day of the week

We've got two turbo cars in the household (and have had a previous one) but haven't had a supercharger. I will say that I'm with @PhillipM in that it's all down to tuning. The "old" (2006) 2.3T we had was an all or nothing old school big laggy turbo, entertaining and feels fast as hell but ultimately hard to get the best out of when driving and might be challenging on a RWD with no driver aids in wet/slippery conditions.

The little 2.0T we have is amazingly flexible and doesn't lag so much as feels lacking low down. The 2.5T is almost impossible to catch "off boost" and just piles on more power from 1500rpm and just runs a bit out of puff up top. The idea of a larger version of that would be great!

 

[dobbslc]

Engine choice, well it *had* to be a v8. That was absolutely a major part of what the car is and hence just not

I've seen one a LeMans that has a bloody ecotec engine in it!

The LS (as in GM not Lexus LS400)

That's freaky as I've just finished watching Fantom Works on the TV where they fitted a LS engine in a Nova. It did make me think for a minute.

Has the advantage of being the exact same firing order as the SBF

Like a flat plain V8? Toyota are quite closely linked with Yamaha that make the "big bang" R1 and M1 MotoGP bikes. I like it even more now.

 

[Fastdruid]

I've seen one a LeMans that has a bloody ecotec engine in it!

I mean part of me says Eaugh... the other part frankly has respect for anyone that builds their own. Everyone has their own priorities and compromises they're prepared to take.

An example being these:

They cost an *absolute* fortune but I again didn't want to compromise on them as they're another "feature" of the car and it just doesn't look "right" with Aston type rounded caps (even though they are a fraction of the price).

 

[Fastdruid]

Like a flat plain V8? Toyota are quite closely linked with Yamaha that make the "big bang" R1 and M1 MotoGP bikes. I like it even more now.

It's not a flat plane crank. Here's a picture of one I stole off the internet earlier.

Here is a 302 crank

1UZ firing order is 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2 but the cylinders are numbered from 1 being front left, 2 being front right.
1 2
3 4
5 6
7 8
302 firing order is 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8 but the cylinders are numbered from 1 being front right, 5 being front left.
5 1
6 2
7 3
8 4

So translating 302 numbering to 1UZ and the 302 order becomes 2-1-8-4-3-6-5-7, loop that round and you get the exact same 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2.

Fundamentally this means that the crossover exhaust is identical and it should sound identical (ish, depends on cams, exhaust etc).

 

[dobbslc]

You've just fried my brain! But if it looks similar and sounds the same then what's not to like?

 

[Jim Davey]

Is this a Southern GT chassis?