Gigantic 3ph extractor

[Screwdriver]

So following on from the forklift truck débacle, I have been asked to install this:

Ok so there's a lot of empty space in it but it's 3.5 metres tall with a huge great motor to drive the fans.

This motor:

It needs 8kW or about 15 amps so I need to be sure about the wire rating because it needs to move about 2-3 feet from the isolator and socket. Also I need to replace a broken socket.

Not sure what this is bolted to it. Some sort of star-delta starter but with a built in timer (??).

I may try and track it down with the original company based on their sales record. Meanwhile does anyone know what it is?

I need to set up all of the machines in the room (about half a dozen) so that when you switch on any machine locally, it also fires up the extractor. There is probably a product out there that does it, it might even be built into each of the (Felder) machines but this is early days. I have said I'll have a crack at it and while it would be great if anyone might be able to help, this thread is also useful for me to keep a record.

 

[mtt.tr]

If this is your first time doing this there is alot of reading ahead of you, proper earthing, blast gates and so on.


Find a sparks to do the wiring

Find a firm that will design and sell ducting and all required components, its not out right complicated but lots of nuance

That leaves you to do the grunt, you will need a labour suspending duct on your own isnt ideal or time effective

 

[Parm]

That's a massive dust control unit, perhaps in a wood working factory. Almost certainly its going to be the brain of a multi branch system providing dust control

While I cant comment on the electrickery, are you competent to carry out a commissioning test and provide a performance report on the functioning and effectiveness on control following any work you do ?

Edit, just read again and its serving multi machines in the room. You are not competent to be installing this. My Strong advice, don't do it. Its way way more complicated than simply connecting a few machines with ducting to an extractor.

I think @Ali does this for a living, designing LEV systems

 

[mtt.tr]

That's a massive dust control unit, perhaps in a wood working factory. Almost certainly its going to be the brain of a multi branch system providing dust control

While I cant comment on the electrickery, are you competent to carry out a commissioning test and provide a performance report on the functioning and effectiveness on control following any work you do ?

This is so vital, ive worked in a few shops were the owners installed the ducting and its been useless at certain areas on some machines

 

[Screwdriver]

That's a massive dust control unit, perhaps in a wood working factory. Almost certainly its going to be the brain of a multi branch system providing dust control

While I cant comment on the electrickery, are you competent to carry out a commissioning test and provide a performance report on the functioning and effectiveness on control following any work you do ?

Edit, just read again and its serving multi machines in the room. You are not competent to be installing this. My Strong advice, don't do it. Its way way more complicated than simply connecting a few machines with ducting to an extractor.

I think @Ali does this for a living, designing LEV systems

I appreciate the concern but there's not really much to it. I need to move an existing isolator and socket and investigate the remote start option. Once I have a plan I can decide whether or not I should be able to do it and once it's done, the owner will bring in his electrician to commission it and ensure any work meets the relevant code. He's not doing it because of the lockdown. I am curious to know what you think my competence is though.

The ducting is also due to be moved around and while that's not something I have any experience with 1. it's not rocket science and 2. the owner has been installing systems like that for years. I'm just there to help. The cherry on top is that he does all of his pans and customer previews in Sketchup. I live literally just around the corner so I am angling for a regular income as a journeyman Mr. Fixit.

If you are that concerned with safety and workspaces meeting regulations, you will be delighted to see that someone is volunteering to sort out the rats nest of wiring and at least make sure all of the power supply ables are correctly ratedand properly installed. Don't even get me started on the lighting and single phase installations, you give yourself a heart attack.

Does anyone know what that Crompton controller is, what it does and why it has a timer?

 

[Seadog]

Does anyone know what that Crompton controller is, what it does and why it has a timer?

I had one, but it's now in many pieces. There are three (or is it two?) contactors in it, that much I can say. Sorry not be more help.

The original unit does not have a timer installed. That's someone's addition.

 

[Ton-up]

The timer must be for turning it on and off at set times. I have never seen one timed like that. It may be to control a a shaker on the top, but why would it be a 7 day timer?

I will pm you the Airplants reps number if you want, he's pretty local and always down your way.

Also ductwork is rocket science if you want to get constant flow at all points!!

 

[Munkul]

Is the timer not set to run for a specified interval before switching off? I.e. you operate a dusty machine, it turns on, you switch everything off, but the extraction runs on for another 10 mins or so.

The shaker timer if there is one, will be preprogrammed and hidden away I would have thought?

LEV regulations are a ballache, you will tie yourself in knots if you try to work out what you are and are not allowed to do. As long as the owner knows it's on him, not you...

 

[Parm]

I appreciate the concern but there's not really much to it. I need to move an existing isolator and socket and investigate the remote start option. Once I have a plan I can decide whether or not I should be able to do it and once it's done, the owner will bring in his electrician to commission it and ensure any work meets the relevant code. He's not doing it because of the lockdown. I am curious to know what you think my competence is though.

The ducting is also due to be moved around and while that's not something I have any experience with 1. it's not rocket science and 2. the owner has been installing systems like that for years. I'm just there to help. The cherry on top is that he does all of his pans and customer previews in Sketchup. I live literally just around the corner so I am angling for a regular income as a journeyman Mr. Fixit.

If you are that concerned with safety and workspaces meeting regulations, you will be delighted to see that someone is volunteering to sort out the rats nest of wiring and at least make sure all of the power supply ables are correctly ratedand properly installed. Don't even get me started on the lighting and single phase installations, you give yourself a heart attack.

Does anyone know what that Crompton controller is, what it does and why it has a timer?

Crack on, you are not one to be told.

This is a level of complicated that its evidently clear that you don't understand.

 

[Seadog]

 

[Screwdriver]

Well I spoke to a very helpful chap at Crompton who said it was "easy" to remote start but then spoke gobbledegook for a minute reeling off contactor numbers and the colour of the wiring! Anyhow, ofr "easy" I will substitute "doable" and I'll ping them with an email to make sure I'm on the right tack.

I can do that because the timer appears to be a bodge. It shouldn't have a days/hours electronic timer like you'd have on a central heating system, it just needs a 30 second delay for the star/delta switch to occur. The flying cable which comes out of this unit is also probably a remote switching adaption that someone has installed retrospectively. I hesitate to call it a bodge because I've not had the panel off yet. Might be exactly what I need.

Thanks for the recommendations, I will assemble as much info as I can before doing anything, let alone connecting it up or switching it on. It may be all I do is make sure everything is in place and ready for someone who is qualified to perform any installations. In any case to kill the time, I have a forklift truck to fix parked right next to it. I'm not qualified for that either...

 

[mtt.tr]

I've never heard anyone brag about being under qualified and under experienced.

That's a brilliant attitude when someone else is paying. Chancer

 

[Screwdriver]

The timer must be for turning it on and off at set times. I have never seen one timed like that. It may be to control a a shaker on the top, but why would it be a 7 day timer?

I will pm you the Airplants reps number if you want, he's pretty local and always down your way.

Also ductwork is rocket science if you want to get constant flow at all points!!

See above. I won't be designing the ducting system, I'll leave that to the owner. I'll just be on hand as a Joe Bloggs pair of hands. Though he has already asked if I could make up some brackets or do sheet metal work and the answer to that is affirmative.

Another point to make is that this is a large, well established woodworking business which has grown up over the years in the real world. It therefore has real world issues like their newly built offices and lighting arrangements. They have installed stuff and used it quite happily for years but even to my untrained eye, there's plenty that needs sorting out. If it wasn't for the lockdown, they wouldn't have the downtime to be able to sort out these niggles and I probably wouldn't be the first person they'd ask for help either but since I am here, I get the gig.

 

[Screwdriver]

View attachment 225157

yes, the "provision for remote control" is the interesting bit. I haven't spoken with Felder yet but I imagine having a remote start for your extractor system is a very common requirement. He's a very good customer of theirs too so they will help I am sure of it. I'll grab a picture of some of the machines but he has a suite of edge banders, spindle moulders and other unfathomable devices to play with.

 

[Shox Dr]

I've never heard anyone brag about being under qualified and under experienced.

That's a brilliant attitude when someone else is paying. Chancer

Its the interweb. Today, Rodney I going to be a plastic surgeon.

 

[mtt.tr]

yes, the "provision for remote control" is the interesting bit. I haven't spoken with Felder yet but I imagine having a remote start for your extractor system is a very common requirement. He's a very good customer of theirs too so they will help I am sure of it. I'll grab a picture of some of the machines but he has a suite of edge banders, spindle moulders and other unfathomable devices to play with.

Bigger shops extractor stays on and blast gates are used

 

[graffian]

Mate of mine used to go over to Dunsfold and look after electrical stuff, one day after they have shut down I had to take him over to
recommision[?] and turn the extractors on for the spray room. I did get told how many motors and how big. It was no surprise they were noisy and moved a huge volume of air.
I think it was something like ten 50hp motors each side!

 

[mtt.tr]

Its the interweb. Today, Rodney I going to be a plastic surgeon.

You have hit the nail on the head.

I love to hear people giving it a go with plucky spirit, but not at someone else's expense

 

[Parm]

Its the interweb. Today, Rodney I going to be a plastic surgeon.

Or

this time next year....................

.............. I could be in the dock answering difficult questions

 

[Ton-up]

I can do that because the timer appears to be a bodge. It shouldn't have a days/hours electronic timer like you'd have on a central heating system, it just needs a 30 second delay for the star/delta switch to occur. The flying cable which comes out of this unit is also probably a remote switching adaption that someone has installed retrospectively. I hesitate to call it a bodge because I've not had the panel off yet. Might be exactly what I need.

You mean someones put a 7 day timer in to operate a 30 second star/delta. I dont think so..................

You need someone who knows what they are doing....