Gigantic 3ph extractor

[brightspark]

I've never heard anyone brag about being under qualified and under experienced.

That's a brilliant attitude when someone else is paying. Chancer

its normally the other way around don't know what u are doing and blag your way through taking hours instead of minutes and then overcharge for it

 

[knighty]

I can do that because the timer appears to be a bodge. It shouldn't have a days/hours electronic timer like you'd have on a central heating system, it just needs a 30 second delay for the star/delta switch to occur. The flying cable which comes out of this unit is also probably a remote switching adaption that someone has installed retrospectively. I hesitate to call it a bodge because I've not had the panel off yet. Might be exactly what I need.

30 sec is a long star/delta delay - all my stuff has only been a few seconds, you only need long enough for the motor to get up to speed - I guess if the motor is only just big enough it could take a bit longer

I bet that timer is (or was meant to be) a delay off timer - so the extractor keeps running for a shirt while after the last machine has been turned off - to shift any dust left in the ducting etc. and sit keeps running if a machine is being turned on/off a few times?

either way, I'd defenatly fit a delay off timer, they're a piece of cake too

 

[Shox Dr]

Or

this time next year....................

.............. I could be in the dock answering difficult questions

Should be easy to remember though. Its been documented on here

 

[Parm]

30 sec is a long star/delta delay - all my stuff has only been a few seconds, you only need long enough for the motor to get up to speed - I guess if the motor is only just big enough it could take a bit longer

I bet that timer is (or was meant to be) a delay off timer - so the extractor keeps running for a shirt while after the last machine has been turned off - to shift any dust left in the ducting etc. and sit keeps running if a machine is being turned on/off a few times?

either way, I'd defenatly fit a delay off timer, they're a piece of cake too

The timer is most probably for the shake down mechanism. Every once in a while some eltrickery kicks in to shake the filter bags to collect the dust accumulated. It should fall down the four circular apertures below the big LEV plant. There should be some quite large bins physically connected. Don't know where they are.

Without these the system is pretty useless as the static pressure will build up something stupid

 

[Screwdriver]

You mean someones put a 7 day timer in to operate a 30 second star/delta. I dont think so..................

You need someone who knows what they are doing....

I spoke to the chap who supplied it who works at Crompton. I don't know what he does there but it sounds like he knows his own product. You'll have to tell him he doesn't know what he's doing.

OR you could take the less combative approach and recognise that in the real world, people bodge kit together in all manner of ways to get things working. So it is quite possible no-one knows why that particular type of timer is fitted until someone goes in there to take a look.

The chap at Crompton suggested a YD30S should be fitted (which it also might!) so I will be emailing them to establish costs and installation procedure etc. That timer certainly wasn't fitted by them so someone has added it for as yet unknown reasons.

The timer is most probably for the shake down mechanism. Every once in a while some eltrickery kicks in to shake the filter bags to collect the dust accumulated. It should fall down the four circular apertures below the big LEV plant. There should be some quite large bins physically connected. Don't know where they are.

Without these the system is pretty useless as the static pressure will build up something stupid

An interesting idea but unlikely in this circumstance. It is a large "industrial size" unit for sure but it's just the one motor (pictured) and he bought it because it has multiple smaller bins.

He needed smaller bins because they can't easily lift the bigger ones. They don't have a forklift (yet).

I am quite happy with both my level of expertise and my level of ignorance. I know what my limits are and if this job goes beyond my abilities, I'll get someone in. Possibly someone from here. Now I could do what the owner did and rattle off a thousand tiny jobs or point someone at the room and say fix all that OR I could manage the refurbishment of this workshop and bring specialists in to do their specific task.

The other point is, I can sit here twiddling my thumbs or sit there and do the same or maybe, god forbid, actually help. If I don't fix anything or get anything done, I won't be asking for any payment. I am a (very) slow and methodical person, I never charge by the hour anyway.

 

[Shox Dr]

The timer is most probably for the shake down mechanism. Every once in a while some eltrickery kicks in to shake the filter bags to collect the dust accumulated. It should fall down the four circular apertures below the big LEV plant. There should be some quite large bins physically connected. Don't know where they are.

Without these the system is pretty useless as the static pressure will build up something stupid

you can just about see the outlets underneath, where plastic bags are clamped to. Like you say full of big socks that require purging

 

[Parm]

He needed smaller bins because they can't easily lift the bigger ones. They don't have a forklift (yet).

Again further evidence that you shouldn’t be interfering with this. The size of the bins is determined by the expected loading and capacity of the system

Replacing with smaller bins will leave more dust on the filter bags. An ideal recipe for a primary explosion to occur, followed by a much bigger and more spectacular secondary explosion once the dust has been disturbed, not to mention the accompanying inferno

I’ll just leave this here

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ctor-charged-over-mill-blast-that-killed-four

 

[Parm]

you can just about see the outlets underneath, where plastic bags are clamped to. Like you say full of big socks that require purging

On a system this big, it will have tightly fitted metal bins, bags not allowed

 

[Seadog]

It's a pre-existing installation. It's being moved a few feet

 

[WorkshopChris]

Having just read this post i an lost for words, this is my day job in a production environment. This guy is employing people and asking them to come and do a days work using machinery they are highly dangerous in both very obvious ways and in ways hidden unseen ways. And asking someone totally inexperienced to come and work on them, he obviously has no understanding of his responsibilities as an employer.
In this day and age nothing other than shocking.

 

[mtt.tr]

Again further evidence that you shouldn’t be interfering with this. The size of the bins is determined by the expected loading and capacity of the system

Replacing with smaller bins will leave more dust on the filter bags. An ideal recipe for a primary explosion to occur, followed by a much bigger and more spectacular secondary explosion once the dust has been disturbed, not to mention the accompanying inferno

I’ll just leave this here

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ctor-charged-over-mill-blast-that-killed-four

We had a bonfire of offcuts bit of an annual treat, to show the dangers of dust a split bag of extractor dust was chucked into fire.

An impressive explosion.

 

[Parm]

We had a bonfire of offcuts bit of an annual treat, to show the dangers of dust a split bag of extractor dust was chucked into fire.

An impressive explosion.

It certainly is, I couldn’t possibly tell you if I’ve tried that my self, nope, not at all

 

[winchman]

Now let me play Devils Advocate.
In X years time Fred has lung issues. His Ambulance chaser will have a root around at many things one being his employers extraction systems. He will ask for
Design spec.
Commissioning Documents
Maintenance records
Test records
It has also been known for them to look at the people maintaining it.
Installing it and all sorts of other bits.
The above will all be a Civil action so the Company are innocent until the solicitor can prove other wise, but if the HSE get involved the company will be guilty until they can prove they are not.

 

[brightspark]

chill out we should have a new emoticon for this site depicting a mole and a mountain

 

[cheb]

Ambulance chasers, probably better than most, know there's no use in suing a pauper.

 

[brightspark]

Ambulance chasers, probably better than most, know there's no use in suing a pauper.

I got a phone call some compensation merchants asking if I had loss of hearing at work . I said pardon can u speak up I cant hear she said again I said who will u claim off she said your employer ohh I work for myself how does that work bad reception the phone suddenly went dead

 

[Screwdriver]

Again further evidence that you shouldn’t be interfering with this. The size of the bins is determined by the expected loading and capacity of the system

Replacing with smaller bins will leave more dust on the filter bags. An ideal recipe for a primary explosion to occur, followed by a much bigger and more spectacular secondary explosion once the dust has been disturbed, not to mention the accompanying inferno

I’ll just leave this here

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ctor-charged-over-mill-blast-that-killed-four

Actually it's further evidence of you jumping to conclusions when it's not even day one yet. He bought this one because it HAS multiple smaller bags, not because he is going to modify it.

I appreciate wood flour in particular is dangerous stuff, as is any large bag of flammable material, especially fine dust shavings. That is the nature of woodworking. It's like saying extractors are inherently dangerous, don't use them. Since I am not an idiot, I will exercise extreme caution of course which if you weren't so influenced by confirmation bias you would be able to read in my responses above. I will be contacting the various manufacturers and suppliers, I won't be jumping to any conclusions and I will present this information to the company owner who will act on it appropriately.

Bottom line is, I have been asked to move a large 8kW 3ph motor six inches to the right. I will then investigate how the various manufacturers recommend an extractor system can be integrated into a remote start operation. Since I will be on site and he has to move the ducting to suit, I will help him with that too, probably by making up odd brackets and connectors.

I am slightly disappointed that you would be so hasty to castigate someone rather than use your considerable experience to help by pointing to the relevant legislation or code of practice. Bad day at the office?

 

[eddie49]

I remember reading how to make a flour bomb. Something to do with a candle in an empty paint tin, some flour or sawdust or sugar, put the lid on, then blow down a rubber pipe to disturb the dust. Perhaps it was in Boys Own magazine? Although I was happy making rockets fuelled by potassium nitrate and sugar, I never did try that bomb, even though at the time I did not know that it could have ended like this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Georgia_sugar_refinery_explosion

 

[Parm]

Actually it's further evidence of you jumping to conclusions when it's not even day one yet. He bought this one because it HAS multiple smaller bags, not because he is going to modify it.

I appreciate wood flour in particular is dangerous stuff, as is any large bag of flammable material, especially fine dust shavings. That is the nature of woodworking. It's like saying extractors are inherently dangerous, don't use them. Since I am not an idiot, I will exercise extreme caution of course which if you weren't so influenced by confirmation bias you would be able to read in my responses above. I will be contacting the various manufacturers and suppliers, I won't be jumping to any conclusions and I will present this information to the company owner who will act on it appropriately.

Bottom line is, I have been asked to move a large 8kW 3ph motor six inches to the right. I will then investigate how the various manufacturers recommend an extractor system can be integrated into a remote start operation. Since I will be on site and he has to move the ducting to suit, I will help him with that too, probably by making up odd brackets and connectors.

I am slightly disappointed that you would be so hasty to castigate someone rather than use your considerable experience to help by pointing to the relevant legislation or code of practice. Bad day at the office?

My expertise is assessing the performance of these systems, specifying the extraction performance for different tasks and applications. I do not design install or commission. This is an engineering function. I’m not an engineer

When you have to ask on a forum it’s quite evident that you are not competent and shouldn’t be doing this for all the reasons outlined.

You say your not an idiot, what you should really say is that your not competent. This is way way way more complicated than you can imagine. For example a system that big is never on, on demand. It’s always on. I except a huge inward draw of air that will create massive negative pressure in the work room. This will need to be managed by balancing grills. The ducting needs to be of smaller sizes as you move further away from the fan so you can maintain transport velocity to prevent induct buildup. Then static pressure will need to be maintained so there is constant suction. Plus a whole heap of other stuff that I can’t be bothered with right now as I have cornish pasties in the oven.

What do I know? I cannot compete with expertise gained from google

Over and out

I wish you well with your endeavours

 

[Screwdriver]

Anyhow, back on topic, the first thing I need to establish is the cable rating. Looks like 4 core armoured cable, 2.5mm sq. clipped to the walls.

A quick Google suggests thats fine for this 8kW (14.4A) beast. Goes from the mystery Crompton unit, to an isolator, then on to a (broken) 3ph socket. It might actually be an unbroken socket with the wrong type of connector plugged in it. Needs sorting anyway. That's assuming it would be better even to have a know nothing idiot make this repair than leave it with the wires dangling out?

Pics to follow.