Floors/Inner Sill (Ford Capri) Advice

[Smallfry]

As said, if you possibly can, and have some indoor space, strip the interior, including the head lining. Less fire risk, and equally importantly, its very off pi%%ing when you ruin the interior with some sparks, and a lot less cleaning it too.

 

[Smallfry]

Here is some inspiration for you. Ian is a postman I think.

my mk5 cortina estate

hi guys, long time lurker but first time poster thought i'd share some pics of my mk5 cortina. this as been in my family since it was 3 years old having been a company car for rolls royce in derby. i've restored it once before during 2000/2002 working outside but by 2010 with 350,000 miles...

www.mig-welding.co.uk

 

[Matchless]

There are lots of secondhand tent type portable garages on Ebay and Facearse Clarke etc. often quite cheap...........

 

[Popcorn]

Look in the local free ad's, I got a 6 man frame tent for 20 quid.

 

[gaz1]

as goes for floor pans

you can go down the air hammer forming and do it after the metal has been fitted

nowadays with drill hammers you can get roughly the same

 

[Onoff]

Guessing a MK3 Ghia by the wheels and vinyl roof?

The bottom of the outer sill, bottom of the inner sill and floor lip form a 3 piece "joint".

You'll likely find the sunroof tubes (I'm guessing it has one), end half way down the A posts. That can lead to loads of rot in the A post and then sills. Some folk take the opportunity to build in solid drainage tubes like this guy Alan, aka @clockwork orange over on the Capri Power forum:

Ford Capri Sunroof Drain Modification

Explore this photo album by Mustafa Crackatthat on Flickr!

www.flickr.com

 

[Onoff]

See here how they brace the door opening if doing sill work:

Replacing the Capri sills - Bridge Classic Cars

The Near-side inner and outer sill has now been completely removed from the vehicle ready for it to be replaced with new. The body panels are now in stock

bridgeclassiccars.co.uk

Check out @Domdom 's Sierra thread and see how he braces the door opening's there with 25mm box section:

Sierra XR4i full restoration.

After more poking around we decided that minor repairs were not going to cut the mustard on this lovely old crock. We bought a rollover jig and set about getting the car ready for the surgery needed to make it right again. Took 2 full days to get from a running and driving car to what you see...

www.mig-welding.co.uk

 

[Retro Rust]

Thanks for the links Onoff! It is a 1979 mk3 Ghia. I did think I might sell it and buy a different model thats more solid but, the prices are nuts and this one drives nice.

I've spoken with Alan/Clockwork orange a lot over the years regarding wiring etc to get the car working. That part of my Capri is pretty rough. I was looking at the whole piece last night on "Ex pressed Panels". Its pricey but after watching a lad build one (on youtube) out of bits I'd rather pay for it I think.

L/H Front Spring Hanger - Ex-Pressed Steel Panels

Manufacturing lead time: up to 5 months.

www.steelpanels.co.uk

Good to know about the bracing too. I did wonder about that. Would you need it even if you took a bit of the floor out near the sill and then just did some work on the sill and the floor? I understand if you take the entire sill out.

I like the idea of stripping it down and doing the rotisserie thing as theres not a lot to these Cars, but obviously I dont want to get to a point where I've run before I can walk. Just gathering information at the moment.

Regarding clark tents that a few people have mentioned. I've actually got one and it lives in it right at the bottom of the garden out the way. I didn't think to use it for welding as i'm sure any sparks etc would burn through it?? I could maybe move it closer to the house, will have to discuss that with my other half haha

 

[Retro Rust]

Someone mentioned buying formed metal rather than bending it yourself for Sills etc. I found this place in Manchester/Trafford who seem to offer it. Couldn't find anyone else who did so I'll be paying them a visit i guess.

Steel stockholder that specialises in small quantities | No minimum order | Fast delivery

Also, found these toe boards for the Capri on Ex pressed steel. Its probably going to be easier to buy ones of these than to bash those divits into the metal? but then again maybe not.

R/H KICK PLATE / TOE BOARD - Ex-Pressed Steel Panels

Manufacturing lead time: up to 10 working days.

www.steelpanels.co.uk

 

[Onoff]

I've spoken with Alan/Clockwork orange a lot over the years regarding wiring etc to get the car working.

I presume you're over on CP under a different name?

 

[Cobbler]

Thanks for the links Onoff! It is a 1979 mk3 Ghia. I did think I might sell it and buy a different model thats more solid but, the prices are nuts and this one drives nice.

I've spoken with Alan/Clockwork orange a lot over the years regarding wiring etc to get the car working. That part of my Capri is pretty rough. I was looking at the whole piece last night on "Ex pressed Panels". Its pricey but after watching a lad build one (on youtube) out of bits I'd rather pay for it I think.

L/H Front Spring Hanger - Ex-Pressed Steel Panels

Manufacturing lead time: up to 5 months.

www.steelpanels.co.uk

Good to know about the bracing too. I did wonder about that. Would you need it even if you took a bit of the floor out near the sill and then just did some work on the sill and the floor? I understand if you take the entire sill out.

I like the idea of stripping it down and doing the rotisserie thing as theres not a lot to these Cars, but obviously I dont want to get to a point where I've run before I can walk. Just gathering information at the moment.

Regarding clark tents that a few people have mentioned. I've actually got one and it lives in it right at the bottom of the garden out the way. I didn't think to use it for welding as i'm sure any sparks etc would burn through it?? I could maybe move it closer to the house, will have to discuss that with my other half haha
View attachment 484879

A friend of mine had one of those Clarke garages & the canvas eventually fell apart due to UV damage. He then covered the frame with USB & a metal roof & made it permanent. It made a really nice shelter.

 

[DanZac]

Regarding clark tents that a few people have mentioned. I've actually got one and it lives in it right at the bottom of the garden out the way. I didn't think to use it for welding as i'm sure any sparks etc would burn through it?? I could maybe move it closer to the house, will have to discuss that with my other half haha

Just wait until she's out and do it. Once it's there she's far less likely to object and it'll be too late anyway. And you could always do the old "What that, it's always been there" trick.

P.s Don't take any advice from me, I spend most if my time sleeping on the sofa and most of my money buying flowers.

 

[Cobbler]

Just wait until she's out and do it. Once it's there she's far less likely to object and it'll be too late anyway. And you could always do the old "What that, it's always been there" trick.

P.s Don't take any advice from me, I spend most if my time sleeping on the sofa and most of my money buying flowers.

My wife is tolerant of my foibles, I was rebuilding a trials car diff outside in the cold, she said “bring it in, in front of the fire” I didn’t argue.

 

[indykid]

Problem with cordless is when the battery runs out and the spare isn't charged.
One benefit of a cordless grinders is I don't think they make as much overall noise as a corded one. The discs start the same size, so no better access. I do keep some worn slitting discs for getting into smaller areas if needed. Don't forget decent snips and even a hammer and decent chisel - I've chopped repair sections out of scrap yard cars with just a hammer and chisel.

I have a corded powerfile and I found it useful - cleaning up before and after welding. Similar for a few carbide burrs, even if only used in a drill.

Some method of forming bends on repair bits would be useful too - for years I used a couple of lengths of angle iron in the vice with clamps on the ends to hold sections, and block of wood or just a hammer to turn an edge over. Even gaps between paving slabs used to hold metal while I battered/pushed it over into a flange

I'm not sure if anyone else has found the same, but I notice I get far better life out of slitting discs on a corded grinder. Most cordless grinders run about 8500-9000rpm. Corded grinders run at 10-11000rpm and the extra surface speed seems to make quite a difference and no doubt why discs seem to wear faster the more worn they are, as the diameter decreases.

That said, I invariably run them on the cordless because it's just so convenient.

 

[ian f]

you can make anything given enough time. it all depends on how much you value your time and how tolerant your neighbours are regarding buying panels i learned over 30 years ago when restoring my vanden plas 1300 (on ebay at the moment if anyone is desperate to own one) that pattern parts rarely fitted and weren't available in most cases, so i taught myself how to make panels/ repair sections. remember you can only bend, stretch and shrink metal and a combination of these will make anything possible and enabled me to bring my cortina back if you buy panels from expressed be aware some panels may not be available for several months

 

[ian f]

and a '88 kawasaki zx10 front mudguard i made for a friend due to the original breaking (a common problem apparently)

 

[Domdom]

Looking at the pictures there I would say the sill seams have gone and that will be all the way along. As I found with the Sierra in the thread that @Onoff mentioned, I started with similar issues from first glance but the more I dug into it, the more rust I uncovered.

Expressed panels are about the best out there but they are not perfect by any means. Have a look at my posts about the sills and how they went together, they fitted where they actually touch at first. Lots of fettling.

For the amount you have to cut out you need to brace it all. You need to fix the door pillar width, then fix the height, and then fix the distance from the middle of the car to where the sill seams are, and underneath you need to fix the distance from the front of the sill to the back. That’s a minimum. If you’re not stripping it out to a shell like I did you have more weight to potentially distort the shell so be mindful of that and add more bracing to compensate.

First job is to really inspect what you have. That seam will almost certainly need replacing completely but not necessarily in one chunk. If there is enough to keep it together you can do it in 2 or 3 sections at a time. Follow the photos in my thread to see how I didn’t cut out the 2nd sill completely in one go. One side I had no choice but the 2nd one I left a good bit of the top of the sill and seam welded new metal to that.

If you’re doing the job outside, on a driveway rather than inside on a lift I would suggest a few things. Covers to work under, windbreaks to try and keep the welding gas in situ long enough and I would get some of those huge 6t axle stands to sit the car on. The bigger, the better. The car is much less likely to distort if it’s stood on its wheels than if it’s jacked up. Keep the weight on the suspension areas if you possibly can and get the car as high up as you (safely) can. Ideally get the sills 3 feet off the ground. Again, I will stress the importance of keeping it level and unstressed. Check the doors open and close properly before chopping anything out. You might have to pack under the stands with thin plywood if the driveway isn’t perfectly level.

If the floor pan is solid further in, and it does look like it is, no need to cut that out. I don’t believe in removing good metal, just cut what you need from the new panels, or form them yourself from flat. Butt welding them together is fine, I welded from both sides, in short sections to prevent distortion. Again you can see this in the photos of the Sierra. When it was all painted you couldn’t see the welds.

That sound deadening will mostly come off with an old wood chisel. What doesn’t can be heated with a hot air paint stripper gun and scraped off. You need a good mask, the fumes are bad enough to make a Billy Goat puke.

Best of luck with it.

Dom.

 

[Retro Rust]

Looking at the pictures there I would say the sill seams have gone and that will be all the way along. As I found with the Sierra in the thread that @Onoff mentioned, I started with similar issues from first glance but the more I dug into it, the more rust I uncovered.

Expressed panels are about the best out there but they are not perfect by any means. Have a look at my posts about the sills and how they went together, they fitted where they actually touch at first. Lots of fettling.

For the amount you have to cut out you need to brace it all. You need to fix the door pillar width, then fix the height, and then fix the distance from the middle of the car to where the sill seams are, and underneath you need to fix the distance from the front of the sill to the back. That’s a minimum. If you’re not stripping it out to a shell like I did you have more weight to potentially distort the shell so be mindful of that and add more bracing to compensate.

First job is to really inspect what you have. That seam will almost certainly need replacing completely but not necessarily in one chunk. If there is enough to keep it together you can do it in 2 or 3 sections at a time. Follow the photos in my thread to see how I didn’t cut out the 2nd sill completely in one go. One side I had no choice but the 2nd one I left a good bit of the top of the sill and seam welded new metal to that.

If you’re doing the job outside, on a driveway rather than inside on a lift I would suggest a few things. Covers to work under, windbreaks to try and keep the welding gas in situ long enough and I would get some of those huge 6t axle stands to sit the car on. The bigger, the better. The car is much less likely to distort if it’s stood on its wheels than if it’s jacked up. Keep the weight on the suspension areas if you possibly can and get the car as high up as you (safely) can. Ideally get the sills 3 feet off the ground. Again, I will stress the importance of keeping it level and unstressed. Check the doors open and close properly before chopping anything out. You might have to pack under the stands with thin plywood if the driveway isn’t perfectly level.

If the floor pan is solid further in, and it does look like it is, no need to cut that out. I don’t believe in removing good metal, just cut what you need from the new panels, or form them yourself from flat. Butt welding them together is fine, I welded from both sides, in short sections to prevent distortion. Again you can see this in the photos of the Sierra. When it was all painted you couldn’t see the welds.

That sound deadening will mostly come off with an old wood chisel. What doesn’t can be heated with a hot air paint stripper gun and scraped off. You need a good mask, the fumes are bad enough to make a Billy Goat puke.

Best of luck with it.

Dom.

This is great info Dom! I'll have a look through your Sierra thread! I'll get a good chisel and try that on the deadening.

Re the welding stands. I will have to get some paving slabs for that area and make it as flat as I can. How do you get a Car that high off the ground? I'm used to jacking the Capri up on the front cross member or diff but generally not that high haha. I did see some of those car ramps on facebook that showrooms use that seem tall. Bit expensive but just thinking of ways to get it that high.
Funny how at the beginning of a project you think "I can do this for cheap my self" then after looking at tools or the metal needed/panels it starts getting up there. I guess once you've bought them you have them though. Not like its the only car I will do If I take to it.

 

[Domdom]

No worries, ping me if you want any more info.

For the slabs, be sure to get strong ones. The 2x3 grey ones the council use are good and strong.

For axle stands, look at SHS engineering, something like these. Other sellers are available.

https://www.sgs-engineering.com/jsr6-ratchet-axle-stands.

To get the car up on stands you need a decent trolley jack.

And yes, it can cost a lot in tools. When you’ve been around this forum a while you’ll learn the ways of buying used, mending broken, or just making stuff. Skip diving might have been known to happen on the odd occasion It’s amazing what some folks throw away. But, consider this. Doing the job yourself is satisfying, you learn and it’s done to your standards. Or if you pay someone else you have to choose between cheap MOT patching up or restoration grade which is anything except cheap. With the Sierra, if we had got a garage to do it to my standards there wouldn’t have been much change from 10k.

 

[Spot the welders dog]

I'd also agree that you maybe first start by thinking about your expectations - Dealing with what rot you can already see and the hidden rot you're bound to uncover could run into months of work when you are governed by 'availability of time' and weather conditions being in sync.
As said above it's probably unwise to start stripping the whole car back to a shell at this point, or cutting bits off. Possibly just the interior if you have storage somewhere, else just remove what is needed as and when.The more it remains looking like the car you remember it being the easier it is to keep plugging away. Staring at a junk pile from the window isn't very rewarding.

I too bought a tent thinking it'll help but found it held too much moisture: done away with the sides and left just a canopy which I found much more suitable long term.
When you decide on where to site the car make sure you are still able to open the door (fence side) fully.

My car is sited on mud! I opted for wood cribbage atop of some council slabs as the safest solution whilst keeping the weight on its wheels.

I would encourage you to look at other sources other than Expressed for panels (Unless totally unique). I did get what I wanted, eventually, but given any other choice I would not use them again.
I found Motomobil based in Germany much more amenable.