Flint Panel Edging

[Onoff]

Just finishing my brick pillars. (I'm not a bricklayer as you can tell ). Needs a Disclean etc:

There's 4 inset panels which will be infilled with local flint:

I'm thinking to "edge" the recesses in stainless steel. Bloody expensive if I go 316 though even if say 12 x 12 x 0.9 angle.
Money no object I'd have my fabricator tig up 4 frames.

Then I thought bathroom tile trim? Again a few quid there.

It has to be stainless steel & nothing else, this to match the gate coach bolts and planned mock hinges etc.

I've got a box full of this brass angle (ex Molins at Deptford) but brass won't match.

(Ignore the foamed in brick, non structural and will be covered anyway).

Any suggestions?

Cheers

 

[hotponyshoes]

304 angle will be half the price. Dull finish is cheaper if you have a DA to polish it up yourself.
Or just use flat strip for a frame, welded would look nice or you could cut the corners at 45deg and put some time into it with a file to hide the join although it might be a challenge to get them all mounted flat.

 

[Onoff]

304 angle will be half the price. Dull finish is cheaper if you have a DA to polish it up yourself.
Or just use flat strip for a frame, welded would look nice or you could cut the corners at 45deg and put some time into it with a file to hide the join although it might be a challenge to get them all mounted flat.

Won't 304 be more likely to rust at the welded corners?

 

[hotponyshoes]

304 should be fine outside unless it's near the coast or subjected to chemicals or something.

If its welded/treated properly then the welded areas will be just as good as the rest of it.

Another cheap option might be to have strips cut from sheet offcuts.

If welding is out of the budget and the stainless is looking expensive then if you could get enough offcuts you could make a dotted line type frame around it. Rather than having all the bits welded together just cut them all to the same length and put even spaces inbetween each piece as a surround

 

[Onoff]

Thanks. My fabricator reckons 20x20x3 is the smallest he can get in.

Anyone know anywhere in (West) Kent I might be able to go and buy off the shelf (for cash ).

 

[TechnicAl]

I wouldnt frame it at all.........just the flint and cement

bricklaying looks good to me.....much better than mine

 

[123hotchef]

https://www.metalmaniauk.com/Stainless-Steel/Square-Box-Section/default.aspx box section and cut it in half along the length

 

[Onoff]

12x12x.91 304 angle coming in about £120.00 for the 10m I need plus nearly a tenner delivery.

 

[eLuSiVeMiTe]

I wouldnt frame it at all.........just the flint and cement

+1

 

[123hotchef]

+3 I did think that the other.day why the stainless bling

 

[eLuSiVeMiTe]

+3 I did think that the other.day why the stainless bling

Kiss comes into play.
Keep it simple stupid.

Try and live by it.

 

[Onoff]

I'm actually thinking about infilling my gate pillars with flints... finally! More questions I'm mulling, any input appreciated:

- A 5:1:1/2 sand/cement/hydrated lime (as the bag above) mix is the plan

- What sand, ordinary "orange" builder's sand? At least that might match the brick pillar mortar joints. There's talk of silver sand...not sure I'll get it in Wickes.

- Plan is to do a couple of mixes and see what colour it dries. Say a soft sand mix and whatever "white" sand I can get.

- Thinking to mix in a bucket with the Aldi paddle mixer?

- Is the aim to fill the depth of the recess with as much flint, front to back, or can I "get away with" a thin piece of flint with lots of mortar behind? Thinking the mortar should really encapsulate the flint rather relying on trying to stick the flint to the mortar. I'm thinking thin slivers might detach and fall out more easily?

- I've still not mastered knapping!

- Undecided on a stainless trim around each panel. Tbh probably won't have trims.

Saying all that I've to first make a stainless surround for the video intercom that'll be inset and also to resin in stainless studs to mount the coach lanterns.

 

[Pigeon_Droppings2]

There's talk of silver sand...not sure I'll get it in Wickes.

Wickes sand I find can be a bit gutless...I'm not a brick layer but when I've used it it's not been nice to work with. Builders merchant was much better...I'm guessing they sell to bricklayers who won't put up with rubbish stuff.

 

[Pigeon_Droppings2]

Also I'd skip the stainless...don't get me wrong I like stainless but I think it'll look nicer without because it'll look like it's been standing there for a long time.

Bit of slate might look nice in that design...guess it depends what's going on top of the pillars?

Also good work on the brickwork....I'd be happy with that I think

 

[Onoff]

Bit of slate might look nice in that design...guess it depends what's going on top of the pillars?

Got to work it out on cad but we'll knock some moulds up and cast our own cap stones. Silicone on all the internal corners, drip channel round the edges etc.

 

[Onoff]

Wickes sand I find can be a bit gutless...I'm not a brick layer but when I've used it it's not been nice to work with. Builders merchant was much better...I'm guessing they sell to bricklayers who won't put up with rubbish stuff.

I won't need much is the thing so small bags are ideal. I've a jumbo bag of sharp sitting here but guessing that's no good.

Edit: Just Googled "best sand for lime mortar" and it's looking like sharp sand might in fact be the best stuff.

 

[Blake's 7]

I won't need much is the thing so small bags are ideal. I've a jumbo bag of sharp sitting here but guessing that's no good.

Edit: Just Googled "best sand for lime mortar" and it's looking like sharp sand might in fact be the best stuff.

Ordinary builders sand is too fine for use in lime mortar and it will not be very strong. Use a sharp sand with the largest of the grains being around 5 mm. Keep an accurate ratio of 2.5 sand to 1 lime. The purpose of the lime is to just fill the voids between the grains of sand and no more, hence the need to adhere to the correct ratio. Use natural hydraulic lime, either NHL 3.5 or NHL 5, not hydrated lime. There won't be any need to add cement to the mortar for strength as both of these hydraulic limes produce good, strong mortars with 5 producing a stronger mortar than 3.5.

 

[Onoff]

Ordinary builders sand is too fine for use in lime mortar and it will not be very strong. Use a sharp sand with the largest of the grains being around 5 mm. Keep an accurate ratio of 2.5 sand to 1 lime. The purpose of the lime is to just fill the voids between the grains of sand and no more, hence the need to adhere to the correct ratio. Use natural hydraulic lime, either NHL 3.5 or NHL 5, not hydrated lime. There won't be any need to add cement to the mortar for strength as both of these hydraulic limes produce good, strong mortars with 5 producing a stronger mortar than 3.5.

Thanks, very interesting. Thing is, I've read so many different suggestions and already bought the Blue Circle Hyralime (hydrated lime) above so that's what I'm going to using albeit with some added Portland cement which it says you must.

My main worry in all this is whether the intended 5:1:1/2 sand/cement/hydrated lime mix will shrink away from the flints which are pretty impervious. The "danger" as I understand it is that the flints end up loose in pockets where the mortar has shrunk away from them. Water can then get in, it freezes, pops the pocket and the flint falls out. Hoping the addition of the lime will prevent this.

 

[outofthefire]

Thanks, very interesting. Thing is, I've read so many different suggestions and already bought the Blue Circle Hyralime (hydrated lime) above so that's what I'm going to using albeit with some added Portland cement which it says you must.

My main worry in all this is whether the intended 5:1:1/2 sand/cement/hydrated lime mix will shrink away from the flints which are pretty impervious. The "danger" as I understand it is that the flints end up loose in pockets where the mortar has shrunk away from them. Water can then get in, it freezes, pops the pocket and the flint falls out. Hoping the addition of the lime will prevent this.

When I was at building college, the sand cement ratio was explained as needing to be no stronger than the material you're walling so if there is any movement then the mortar joint gives. If the mortar is stronger and there's movement then the building material will crack and it's easier/cheaper to repoint a joint than replace the building material. The sand you use effects the strength of the mortar, the size of the grains and there roughness, silver sand is only good for playpits, block paving and filling tube to bend it Builders sand is a happy medium for cement mortar enough surface area and roughness to bind, sharp sand is too course and has too big a surface area so it makes for a very strong mix, that's why it and aggregate is used in concrete. We used to add hydrated lime as a plasticizer to make the mortar better to work with, it's not really a lime mortar like Blake 7 is talking about.

 

[Onoff]

We used to add hydrated lime as a plasticizer to make the mortar better to work with, it's not really a lime mortar like Blake 7 is talking about.

Appreciate they're two different things. I'm going with the hydrated lime though, this off of the Ibstock site. I like the idea of elasticity and "autogenous healing" of minor cracks.


The benefits of hydrated lime in cement mortar
The benefit of using hydrated lime in cement mortar has been recognised by builders throughout the ages.
When correctly gauged with cement this mortar offers
 Excellent workability- flows easily assisting the filling of mortar bed and perpend joints.
 High water retentivity- reduction in the effect of suction from bricks ensuring complete contact between mortar and unit
aiding water-tight joints.
 Strength development- Early strength is produced with the continued carbonation of the lime giving increased strength
and durability after.
 Elasticity- inevitable small movements of buildings during and after completion can be taken up without excessive
cracking.
In certain conditions if minor cracks have appeared they can heal themselves by a process called ‘autogenous healing’. Rain
water takes a little of the lime into the void as a solution but the lime remains after evaporation of the water. Reaction with
air turns the lime into calcium carbonate continually hardening as time passes. This provides improved resistance to wind
driven rain.