DVLA and insurance

[CompoSimmonite]

Because to my mental health issues at one time I couldn't face opening post for maybe a full year. All bills etc paid by standing order or direct debit so nobody who needed payment.
Anyway when I eventually managed to face the pile (around 6" high) of unopened post I found a fine for not Sorning my motorbike plus a follow up letter threatening action. By then probably 6 months had passed and never heard another word from DVLA - nor paid theany fine ! Did, however, promptly SORN on line.
Not saying anybody should do the same but just giving experience of not Sorning.

 

[Matchless]

Been caught out by this as well. Thing is you only get so many days to actually get the vehicle insured after registering ownership. In the O P s case it might be worth checking to see when the insurance started especially when you used a broker as you may be insured now but the transaction might have gone through after the DVLA grace period.

Edit. Or everyone would be rushing to insure their vehicles as soon as the letter arrives and claiming its insured.

Edit. Edit. The DVLA letter probably isn't sent till a set number of days after the grace period ends. They will then assume anyone claiming it's insured is trying to pull a fast one and won't listen.

You don't need to insure a vehicle so long as it is on sorn and kept off the public highway, the problem arises if it is kept on the road or taxed even if in your garage. one stupid thing is that the DVLA don't check insurance at the time of taxing........

 

[RichardM]

An update - I rang DVLA again (25 minute wait in a queue) and of course you can't get to speak to someone in the enforcement department, so ended up in the payments department. To be fair, he did actually listen and not put the phone down on me. I asked why no-one at DVLA had bothered to check the MID - no answer. Asked why they don't use email in 2025 so I could send proof of insurance documents - no answer. asked why they didn't make the effort to phone my insurance broker - no answer. The conversation came to an end when I told him to make a note on my case file saying that I expected a letter of apology and confirm that the allegations they have made are false and no action would be taken against me.
It usually takes a lot to annoy me, but we're paying handsomely for these clowns to make a mess of a simple job.

Send it to your MP, copy MP in on all correspondence and ask the M P if this is the expected level of service from a government department.

DVLA once sent me a notification that I hadn't SORNed my bike, and had to pay a fine. I had told them on an old style form and they had issued a refund. Got a nice apology letter off them when I advised them that I had already cashed the cheque they sent me and as they had issued a refund of duty I would have expected them to put it on the SORN register.

 

[Bravheart]

You don't need to insure a vehicle so long as it is on sorn and kept off the public highway, the problem arises if it is kept on the road or taxed even if in your garage. one stupid thing is that the DVLA don't check insurance at the time of taxing........

I would have thought that they wouldn't let you renew the tax without insurance and the two will be linked on the computer database when taxing but may be wrong there. The problem as I see it is with newly purchased vehicles that you fill in the ownership registration for and from that day the insurance clock is ticking. I was caught out by a forklift with a zero tax rate and no intentions of driving on the road but because I registered as the new owner I now know it should have been insured or sorned. Kerching DVLA.

 

[premmington]

Because to my mental health issues at one time I couldn't face opening post for maybe a full year. All bills etc paid by standing order or direct debit so nobody who needed payment.
Anyway when I eventually managed to face the pile (around 6" high) of unopened post I found a fine for not Sorning my motorbike plus a follow up letter threatening action. By then probably 6 months had passed and never heard another word from DVLA - nor paid theany fine ! Did, however, promptly SORN on line.
Not saying anybody should do the same but just giving experience of not Sorning.

@CompoSimmonite - if it makes your feel any better mate...

I not got a diagnosed "mental health issue" - but I too pile up my mail/post. Wait till I am in good positive "can do" mood - sit up a table, open it and action it.

 

[Mark 5]

I had a penalty notice from DVLA last month for not having my 1979 Leyland 154 insured. It was taxed (£0 because it's an old tractor). I didn't know it was actually an offense to have a vehicle that was taxed but not insured, unless of course it's driven or parked in the road, but apparently it is. I thought that I'd just forgotten to renew the insurance, so I rang the company to check and they said it was insured, I'd paid the premium and they emailed me a copy of the documents as confirmation.

I duly appealed the penalty using the DVLA form, gave them the policy details, and they've come back saying my appeal is dismissed, and threatening further action, because they can't confirm the details with the Motor Insurance Database (MID).

So I phoned DVLA up, in itself an ordeal to actually get a human to speak to. I offered them the phone number of the broker so they could confirm directly with them that I'm insured, but they refused to do that, not giving me a reason, just a point blank refusal. I offered to email them my copies of the insurance details, but again this was refused. This is a pathetic response. I'm now waiting for a letter of indemnity from the insurance company (sent via the insurance broker of course) which I will have to print out and send by snail mail to Swansea. What a completely pathetic outfit DVLA are - refusing to talk directly to an insurance broker, refusing to use emails and refusing to acknowledge the details I had previously sent them, when they have every facility to do all of those things. And worst of all assuming I am guilty of an offense without bothering to check simple facts first.

As a footnote I've just googled the MID (an outfit I'd never heard of before all this) and found I can check my insurance status. It says I'm insured, so I'm now about to ring DVLA again to tell them to check the MID themselves properly.

Sorry for your DVLA woes but your expectations are unreasonable as is your reasoning.

I agree, DVLA can be incompetent, annoying, intractable, lazy and have a " not my problem mate attitude by the bucket load " , many, ( not all ), of them are highly untrained, keyboard Kings and Queens, will rarely get off their backsides, walk down a corridor, knock on a door or ask a question directly but they might send an internal email.

Not helped by the fact the DVLA are seriously understaffed but that is a deliberate action.

But, BIB, yours is silly expectation, of course they wouldn't phone and talk to your broker directly/for confirmation, as expedient as that may seem to you.

Neither, usually, will they accept email copies, requiring an actual hard copy of certain documents which is possibly why your appeal failed.

What you expected was like you asking your neighbour to post a letter for you,--ok, pressing the point it needs to be sent,--ok but then adding the caveat, it was their responsibility to ensure the recipient got it and deals with the issue/s--I don't think so.

IMO, It wasn't a pathetic response, more a legal one, one that requires hard copies, send them what you get, with a polite explanation, by recorded delivery, see if you get a better decision.

( IMO DVLA need to cotton on to the fact we all live in an email world expecting hard copies via post is more and more unreasonable, they need to shift position and find a better arrangement but the onus, not unreasonably, is on the motorist for now ).

 

[bricol]

They aren't the only ones who won't accept a direct email, instead requiring a "wet" signature on a letter etc.
As far as I'm aware, they do check if a vehicle is on the MID to be able to tax it, as well as a current MOT or exemption.

The info is all there on all their websites, letters, reminders etc. it's annoying because it only causes hassle for those of us who try to be legal, but they don't hide it.

 

[bricol]

I'm still annoyed they sent me seven reminders to sign a car parked in a field, all of them after I'd done it.

And the following year, no reminders, just the pay a fine now letter . . .

 

[bricol]

And my next annoyance, unless anyone knows different, if I declare SORN, it starts immediately. But I want to declare today, when I remember, it for the end of the month.

 

[Greeves246]

They are quite happy to accept credit and debit cards for payment but are incapable of making a repayment to them if you sell a bike or car and send a cheque which as it is quite small when you sell a 125 they probably don’t expect you to bother.

 

[dobbslc]

Always bother and always cancel it on the last day of the month

 

[Robotstar5]

I tax my tractor (at £0) and insure it, but as it lives at the stable and never goes on public roads I suppose I could SORN it.

 

[Matchless]

They aren't the only ones who won't accept a direct email, instead requiring a "wet" signature on a letter etc.
As far as I'm aware, they do check if a vehicle is on the MID to be able to tax it, as well as a current MOT or exemption.

The info is all there on all their websites, letters, reminders etc. it's annoying because it only causes hassle for those of us who try to be legal, but they don't hide it.

At the time of taxing online they do NOT check insurance or MOT, try to tax a rusty heap sitting in a front garden, I bet you can,

 

[Matchless]

I'm still annoyed they sent me seven reminders to sign a car parked in a field, all of them after I'd done it.

And the following year, no reminders, just the pay a fine now letter . . .

Sorn is now indefinite or at least a very long time, does not run out after a year.

 

[knighty]

a mate of mine had his engine blow up, car wasn't worth fixing, could have sold it but I think he was too disappointed in it, he left it on the road outside his house

it got clamped for no tax... still angry/disappointed he ignored it

DVLA came to take it away... he said go for it, keep it, I don't care

that was 4 years ago, he's still getting parking/speeding tickets for it


repossessed by the DVLA, not in his name.... no matter how many tickets he fights (and wins) they still think it's his car :-s

 

[bricol]

Sorn is now indefinite or at least a very long time, does not run out after a year.

It does now - which makes sense. It didn't use to - you had to renew it every year.

 

[bricol]

At the time of taxing online they do NOT check insurance or MOT, try to tax a rusty heap sitting in a front garden, I bet you can,

Always pops up with a "checking . . ."

I have a not that rusty really heap in the back garden that's not been taxed, MOTed or insured for a good few years - if I remember, I'll check.

 

[GRW]

I bought a van in March 24.
Insured & taxed it immediately (new keeper slip).
It escaped my notice that the V5 never arrived (I think the old fella I bought it from didn't send it off).
A few weeks ago I decided it was too much time & money to put right the accumulated issues - and replaced it. Van to be sold "Spares or repairs", and I had to cancel insurance to get the NCD on new van policy.

DVLA won't let you SORN it, without the V5. To get a V5, you are told online you must send in a V62 by POST, and include (wait for it) a CHEQUE or POSTAL ORDER for £25.... then wait while its processed & get the V5....only then can you SORN, sell on.

(BTW- they don't tell you, but when you read the back of the V62 - it tells you that you actually don't need to pay £25 if you have/return the green New Keeper Slip with the V62).

In 2025, DVLA will happily have you do & pay everything instantly electronically. However, anything that you require to address problems must be undertaken physically using archaic methods.
Incompetence or deliberate obstructive strategy? You decide.

(It cost me an extra month's VED refund while they processed it via Snail Mail.... I wonder how much money they grab off millions of motorists with their "processes"?)

 

[ms08]

If they, the DVLA can confirm the details with the MID database how did they know it 'wasn't insured'?
As a well known blond gentleman who once ran the country recently said - we are becoming more of a 'police state' than the well know police states....

 

[Newlands]

so basically you got no where

and it cost you a phonecall and time for nothing

all they will do is just send another letter and soon after you will be taken to court

it truly makes a mockery out of digital by default when they dont use it themselves

No so my friend. I was able to tell them that the vehicle was confirmed insured by the same MID that they claim didn't confirm my insurance status. So if they decide to take any action now, in the face of that knowledge, they will be wasting their time.

And yes, as @GRW says, they are deliberately obstructive by not allowing email comms, and their obtuse phone menu system which routes you through to nothing of any use. They make it very easy to pay fines though.