Driving licence changes?

[Bravheart]

Every truck that comes in here is either fully loaded and has to be emptied or empty and has to be loaded but the trailers they pull are totally different so its not possible to empty a truck and bulk fill it again. That means 100% of the trucks in here are empty 50 % of the time and will lift as many axles as possible when empty to go get their next load.
Think i read earlier in the thread that the tax on a sixth axle is around £60. That doesn't come close to buying a tyre for instance so the more tyres the operator's can keep off the road the more they are saving in tyre wear alone.
Ultimately most of what you consume is moved around on these trucks so the more efficient they are the cheaper it is for you.
Remember these trucks are averaging 7-8 mpg and the fuel they burned topped out at around £9.oo per gallon and I believe over half of this goes back to the government in one form of tax or another. The treasury needs its tax income from somewhere so if its not from haulage it might be more tax from you.

 

[minimutly]

But I've counted last night and this morning round the m25 and i saw nowhere 90% lifted. This morning was more like 40% lifted. Likewise of the lorries that have driven through our roadworks today only a couple have been lifted.
If these lorries where not using them then either they would be ordered as 4 wheel units or ordered with a baby lift axle.
You might always travel at a particular time of day when there is a high percentage on lorries running empty. It might be that the stretch of m4 you are traveling has a lot of rdcs that distribute lite things or the lorries are all running in laden and you are only seeing the ones traveling outbound. you might not see the dropped axle lorries as they heavier so the liter lorries are traveling in the offside lane making them more obvious.
But considering that there must be atleast 30% of Lorries that only run fully laden or fully empty such as fuel tankers. Grain bulkers. Most Walking floors. Ejectors on waste work and a whole host more. And we generously assume as said before that they are laden at least 50% of the time. Then that means there is already a larger percentage with the axles dropped than you believe.

Ok, now you’re talking down to me. Time to drop this.
Next time I’m out and about I’ll keep a record, until then enough.

 

[minimutly]

Every truck that comes in here is either fully loaded and has to be emptied or empty and has to be loaded but the trailers they pull are totally different so its not possible to empty a truck and bulk fill it again. That means 100% of the trucks in here are empty 50 % of the time and will lift as many axles as possible when empty to go get their next load.
Think i read earlier in the thread that the tax on a sixth axle is around £60. That doesn't come close to buying a tyre for instance so the more tyres the operator's can keep off the road the more they are saving in tyre wear alone.
Ultimately most of what you consume is moved around on these trucks so the more efficient they are the cheaper it is for you.
Remember these trucks are averaging 7-8 mpg and the fuel they burned topped out at around £9.oo per gallon and I believe over half of this goes back to the government in one form of tax or another. The treasury needs its tax income from somewhere so if its not from haulage it might be more tax from you.

As an argument for carrying axles around the country I have to say that last paragraph is scraping the barrel...

 

[More Amps]

I maybe optimistic, but perhaps this article will shed some light on the great tag axle conundrum. They quote a fuel saving between 1.3 - 4.8% which doesn't sound huge but when set against the cost of running a lorry and the very slim margins on which they operate, is clearly significant - and could easily be the difference between profit or loss.

The Impact of Lift Axles on Fuel Economy and GHG Emissions Reduction

Using lift axles enables fleet to increase the load capacity of a vehicle, eliminating the need for multiple trips, thus reducing operational costs.In a project to assess the potential of reducing fuel consumption and greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions by lifting axles on unloaded semi-trailers, lift ax

www.sae.org

 

[8ob]

The number of axles vs the revenue weight has a huge impact on hgv road tax rates, basically on trucks with more than two axles the more axles for a given weight the cheaper the tax, down side is the extra axles will eat some carrying capacity but for trucks carrying volume instead of weight it’s a no brainier. Way too many variables in this game to assume anything is right or wrong especially when it comes to a lift axle

Bob

 

[Agrismith]

Ok, now you’re talking down to me. Time to drop this.
Next time I’m out and about I’ll keep a record, until then enough.

I'm not down to you I'm simply addressing the issues with your thoughts on the subject If you feel I'm talking down to you maybe that says something about the your thoughts rather than my language.
As you suggested I do, I counted. That's three 2hr trips round the m25 at different times. And every time it was roughly 50/50. So therefore I can already debunk your conspiracy theory for myself. I am just trying to help you understand that you haven't magically found a way to vastly increase the efficiency of haulage contractors in am industry where fuel efficiency is one of the largest factors to a contractors bottom line.
I am not the only person either that is trying to point this out yet you seem dead set that 90%of the lorries in this country are running around empty.

A few more facts just to make things clearer.
The axles are automatic on most lorries. Some lorries you can force the axle down but not up. Very very few lorries can you force the axle up. Mostly very old cut and shut lorries that have had a tag bodged on. Not modern purpose built lorries like haulage contractors will be using.
If these systems are tampered with the lorry would fail an mot or roadside check. Therefore it is very unlikely that contractors are lifting an axle when they shouldn't. There are also weigh in motion cells fitted to the motorway network at strategic points that would pick up on overloaded axles due to the system being tampered with.

There are plenty of UK registered 2 axle units. Most the supermarkets run them. Seeing how many lorries they run if there was a tax incentive to run an extra axle permanently lifted then these units would not exist.

If haulage contractors where regularly running round empty then we would see a lot more wagon and drags on the road. Replacing all arctics that never swap trailers about. Wagon and drags can carry a greater volume but less weight. This is why they are popular for straw haulage. But for general haulage where weight capacity is required they don't work.

 

[Mick Annick]

I'm not down to you I'm simply addressing the issues with your thoughts on the subject If you feel I'm talking down to you maybe that says something about the your thoughts rather than my language.
As you suggested I do, I counted. That's three 2hr trips round the m25 at different times. And every time it was roughly 50/50. So therefore I can already debunk your conspiracy theory for myself. I am just trying to help you understand that you haven't magically found a way to vastly increase the efficiency of haulage contractors in am industry where fuel efficiency is one of the largest factors to a contractors bottom line.
I am not the only person either that is trying to point this out yet you seem dead set that 90%of the lorries in this country are running around empty.

A few more facts just to make things clearer.
The axles are automatic on most lorries. Some lorries you can force the axle down but not up. Very very few lorries can you force the axle up. Mostly very old cut and shut lorries that have had a tag bodged on. Not modern purpose built lorries like haulage contractors will be using.
If these systems are tampered with the lorry would fail an mot or roadside check. Therefore it is very unlikely that contractors are lifting an axle when they shouldn't. There are also weigh in motion cells fitted to the motorway network at strategic points that would pick up on overloaded axles due to the system being tampered with.

There are plenty of UK registered 2 axle units. Most the supermarkets run them. Seeing how many lorries they run if there was a tax incentive to run an extra axle permanently lifted then these units would not exist.

If haulage contractors where regularly running round empty then we would see a lot more wagon and drags on the road. Replacing all arctics that never swap trailers about. Wagon and drags can carry a greater volume but less weight. This is why they are popular for straw haulage. But for general haulage where weight capacity is required they don't work.

A few years ago I had to shift an 8 wheeler fresh water tanker from Newbury up to Whale tankers in Solihull (the driver had inadvertantly gobbled up a load of gravel - apparently pumps don’t like that). Arrived at the depot and it was raining, only problem was the only way out was up a very steep hill (Hill Lane, Speen, the name was bit of a clue) with a T junction at the top, and the chuffing thing wouldn’t left me lift the rear axle to get a bit more grip. It took three attempts to get up the hill and on the last one I just had to go for it at the junction without stopping - luckily it was a quiet residential street.

 

[m_c]

A few years ago I had to shift an 8 wheeler fresh water tanker from Newbury up to Whale tankers in Solihull (the driver had inadvertantly gobbled up a load of gravel - apparently pumps don’t like that). Arrived at the depot and it was raining, only problem was the only way out was up a very steep hill (Hill Lane, Speen, the name was bit of a clue) with a T junction at the top, and the chuffing thing wouldn’t left me lift the rear axle to get a bit more grip. It took three attempts to get up the hill and on the last one I just had to go for it at the junction without stopping - luckily it was a quiet residential street.

Most lorries have a button for that situation. It won't let you lift the axle completely, but will deflate the airbags to put more weight on the drive axle, then once you're moving automatically reinflate them.

 

[Mick Annick]

Most lorries have a button for that situation. It won't let you lift the axle completely, but will deflate the airbags to put more weight on the drive axle, then once you're moving automatically reinflate them.

I know, but could i find it

 

[Justme]

A few years ago I had to shift an 8 wheeler fresh water tanker from Newbury up to Whale tankers in Solihull (the driver had inadvertantly gobbled up a load of gravel - apparently pumps don’t like that). Arrived at the depot and it was raining, only problem was the only way out was up a very steep hill (Hill Lane, Speen, the name was bit of a clue) with a T junction at the top, and the chuffing thing wouldn’t left me lift the rear axle to get a bit more grip. It took three attempts to get up the hill and on the last one I just had to go for it at the junction without stopping - luckily it was a quiet residential street.

I do some part time work for a dairy driving 8 wheelers.

Thankfully I can force lift the tag axle for extra grip as some farms are steep & rough. However it will only stay up for about 30 seconds.
Normally enough to get some momentum. If not then I use the load redistribution settings to keep going or lift axle again.
I can also lift it for some of the tight turns into the farms or round the country lanes. Not so much as it has rear steer.

Each round is about 120-150 miles.
I had a round that started about 25-30 miles away so axle up.
Most days the first collection of around 4-6t would not trigger the axle down but the second one always would around taking me over 6t ish. so by now I have done about 40 miles axle up.
Then off to next collection taking load up to about 16-20 tonnes then off to meet the bulker to unload.
Covered about 50-60 miles so far & now empty again so axle up.
The return trip back to the depot would have about 3 collections.
Again the first might or might not just take me over the axle down point.
Now I am at the second collection having done about 70-80 miles.
Axle will be down for sure after this collection & to next & all the way home.
Total distance travelled 120-150 miles.
Axle up for about 50+ miles.
Then once I have tipped I still have another couple of miles to fuel up & wash the vehicle before being done for the day.

The Artic bulkers used to take my load half way round the route run's 50% empty all the time so will have axles up.
They leave depot to drive to meeting yard to drop empty & swap for a full one.
They do this 2 or 3 swaps per day.

 

[Bravheart]

I do some part time work for a dairy driving 8 wheelers.

Thankfully I can force lift the tag axle for extra grip as some farms are steep & rough. However it will only stay up for about 30 seconds.
Normally enough to get some momentum. If not then I use the load redistribution settings to keep going or lift axle again.
I can also lift it for some of the tight turns into the farms or round the country lanes. Not so much as it has rear steer.

Each round is about 120-150 miles.
I had a round that started about 25-30 miles away so axle up.
Most days the first collection of around 4-6t would not trigger the axle down but the second one always would around taking me over 6t ish. so by now I have done about 40 miles axle up.
Then off to next collection taking load up to about 16-20 tonnes then off to meet the bulker to unload.
Covered about 50-60 miles so far & now empty again so axle up.
The return trip back to the depot would have about 3 collections.
Again the first might or might not just take me over the axle down point.
Now I am at the second collection having done about 70-80 miles.
Axle will be down for sure after this collection & to next & all the way home.
Total distance travelled 120-150 miles.
Axle up for about 50+ miles.
Then once I have tipped I still have another couple of miles to fuel up & wash the vehicle before being done for the day.

The Artic bulkers used to take my load half way round the route run's 50% empty all the time so will have axles up.
They leave depot to drive to meeting yard to drop empty & swap for a full one.
They do this 2 or 3 swaps per day.

No matter what we say @minimutly won't listen. He's got his own agenda

 

[Agrismith]

No matter what we say @minimutly won't listen. He's got his own agenda

Hopefully he drives a motorbike everywhere to save carrying the unnecessary extra 2 wheels on a car

 

[minimutly]

No matter what we say @minimutly won't listen. He's got his own agenda

You see, there you go again...

 

[James1979]

Hopefully he drives a motorbike everywhere to save carrying the unnecessary extra 2 wheels on a car

That’s funny

 

[Bravheart]

Hopefully he drives a motorbike everywhere to save carrying the unnecessary extra 2 wheels on a car

Maybe he could pull a wheelie and get the tyre count down further.

 

[sako243]

Getting back on topic at least if these changes go through then my Sandringham doesn't need to be down-plated for me to drive it at it's full capacity

 

[James1979]

Getting back on topic at least if these changes go through then my Sandringham doesn't need to be down-plated for me to drive it at it's full capacity

If it was down plated what would your payload be, just out of interest?

 

[sako243]

If it was down plated what would your payload be, just out of interest?

Well it's not "really" downplated - the V5 states 3.5t but the plate on the bulkhead states 4t (3995kg) with 4t trailer.

The copy of a brochure I have states a 2t payload putting the vehicle at ~2t which I think is about right. I weighed in some scrap with it and had a 20ft trailer on the back (but reversed off the weighbridge but still attached).
Me in the vehicle (that's another 100kg ) and a load of tools and straps in the passenger seat. Weighed in at 2.2t so excluding me that's 100kg spread across tools, straps and nose weight on the trailer which is quite believable.

I've got one of those weird intermediate B+E licenses where I'm limited to 3.5t tow vehicle but the trailer is limited by the tow vehicle rather than tow vehicle and overall train weight being under 7.5t. Subsequent licenses that were issued had the train weight limit introduced but it's not on my license when you look it up on the government website.

So just a bit annoying I can pull a 4t trailer with the 6x6 but "can't" put 2t on the back.

 

[Justme]

Hopefully he drives a motorbike everywhere to save carrying the unnecessary extra 2 wheels on a car

Unicycle?

 

[Agrismith]

Unicycle?

Hovercraft??