Driving licence changes?

[Agrismith]

I don't know enough about this to warrant going on about it forever. But all the reasoning under the sun doesn't change the fact that 90% of trucks on our roads are carrying one axle at any time - I'm not making this up - all you have to do is count them. I can see you'd want the biggest truck etc, but two tons odd being carried around for nothing still doesn't make sense - but then maybe if its needed for 10% of the time and that's when it pays for itself, perhaps it does...

As said I think your 90% is a bit dramatic. And will depend on time location and direction of travel.
If what you say is true 90% of Lorries are running around nearly 1/4 empty.

 

[minimutly]

Well I'm not making this up - check for yourself if you think I am.

 

[Cato]

It’s a bit half and half, there are operators like supermarkets ect that don’t carry other freight. Most proper haulage companies phone in for a return load. The timber boys stay in their trucks until they find a return load, they won’t turn a wheel unless freighted or on their way to the next load.

Bob

Those lads (and ladies?) drive like the devil himself is behind them!

I was working in Wales on and off over a couple of years. Heading to Dolgellau from Birmingham at daft o'clock not a soul in sight at 60 where you could do so. Then it would get very bright you'd look in the rear view and all you could see was part of a grille and "OLVO".

 

[Justme]

I am, yes. And you’re passionate as far as it makes you money. Whenever there’s a thread along these lines I can guarantee you’ll pop up quoting the same tired gash about safety- I notice the impending trailer based apocalypse you predicted hasn’t happened yet

Actually trailer accidents are on the rise anecdotally but its too early to draw conclusions as it is silly season.

I do it because I am passionate, not be passionate because I do it.

 

[Justme]

Well I'm not making this up - check for yourself if you think I am.

A lorry will only ever be fully fully loaded at the start of a trip.
Even then fully loaded might not actually be fully weighted as some loads are more volume than weight.
Most are multi drop so getting lighter through the day / trip.

 

[minimutly]

A lorry will only ever be fully fully loaded at the start of a trip.
Even then fully loaded might not actually be fully weighted as some loads are more volume than weight.
Most are multi drop so getting lighter through the day / trip.

"Most are multi-drop", really? not where I come from load out load in. My dad drove one for most of his life, and most of my cousins still do, so I do know a thing or two about this. In cities where you have dellivery lories fair enough, but they rarely carry their axles.

 

[Justme]

"Most are multi-drop", really? not where I come from load out load in. My dad drove one for most of his life, and most of my cousins still do, so I do know a thing or two about this. In cities where you have dellivery lories fair enough, but they rarely carry their axles.

Based on the job market yes most do seem to be multi stop jobs.
Load in and load out I would expect to be less common.
Factories, production ect & even then the ones delivering materials most likely wont take the produced goods away.
Ok parcels trunking yes moving goods between hubs & centralisation unit but shops ect its mostly one way stuff.

But that end of the market is not what I do so I can only comment on what I have seen.

 

[Mick Annick]

They are automatic on most modern lorries so will only drop when needed. On some arctics that could be as little as 4t shy of loaded.
And a lorry is only really going to be loaded 50% of the time so yes you will see them lifted 50% of the time.
Having a tag is actually going to be more environmentally friendly. It is more efficient to move as much as possible each time. So therefore we want lorries to be as big and heavily laden as possible so they are moving the highest volume of material in comparison to there own weight.
However running extra wheels on the ground when they arnt needed is extra drag and extra wear and tear which is more pollution. Therefore they lift up. The extra axle down when fully laden is also better for the road meaning the road is repaired less often and road repair causes a huge amount of pollution.
Essential the wasted pollution you suggest would be burning excess fuel to carry unnecessary weight around. This would directly effect the bottom line of the haulage firms. So between wanted fuel and the extra purchase price they are not going to run lift axles if it wasn't the most efficient way of working. Your talking about an industry that is ditching wing mirrors to save 1mpg and low loaders running ramps that fold flat to save 1mpg.
I'm sure the entire haulage industry are not such bad business men as to be running an extra axle around for fun.

Nicely put

 

[Agrismith]

Well I'm not making this up - check for yourself if you think I am.

Well I did as I have been stuck in traffic on the m25 And there was definitely nowhere near 90% lifted. About 50/50 maybe 60% along some stretches at a push. And it's quite easy to tell the majority of Lorries whether they are loaded wheel up or unloaded wheel up.
At that time of day aswell you are going to have a higher person of Lorries running home after a days work. So I will count again on the morning run

 

[Islander71]

I wonder if this will apply to over 70s who currently lose grandfather rights to drive up to 7.5tons and minibuses on turning 70 unless taking a medical for each license , which has to be re-newed every 3 years?

 

[4String.]

So I will count again on the morning run

 

[Agrismith]

View attachment 359023

I have 2hrs sat on the m25 at rush hour and I got bored of playing I spy with myself. Really not a lot else to do.

 

[eLuSiVeMiTe]

I have 2hrs sat on the m25 at rush hour and I got bored of playing I spy with myself. Really not a lot else to do.

Audio books for me when I'm on the road.

 

[Justme]

I wonder if this will apply to over 70s who currently lose grandfather rights to drive up to 7.5tons and minibuses on turning 70 unless taking a medical for each license , which has to be re-newed every 3 years?

No that will still likely happen, its proposed that others join that system.

 

[Bravheart]

Well I'm not making this up - check for yourself if you think I am.

Do you have figures to back this claim up?

As many have tried to explain along with maximum length trucks have a maximum loaded weight limit and a maximum axle weight limit so if an articulated truck is loaded to its maximum then all 6 axles must be on the road carrying an evenly distributed load over the 6 axles.
Each axle must never be carrying over its maximum weight but if the load is light or the trailer empty then axles can be lifted to be kinder to the road surface and fuel consumption.
Its that simple what don't you get?

 

[Bravheart]

@minimutly here's a practical example-
Near the start of lockdown a relative of mine who drives an articulated truck was sent down to east anglia from Scotland with a load of fertiliser (which BTW. you also have to sit a separate test for). His trailer that trip was one of those flexible curtain sided boxes you see lots of on the road. Now his return load was Toilet rolls for Tesco's distribution warehouse is central Scotland (remember toilet roll wars early lockdown?)Now even though his trailer was full it was nowhere near the axle load or full load limits of his truck so could lift an axle to save fuel and road surface all the way back up. Perhaps he should have had an armed guard though
AFAIK. Im no trucker but there's no smoke and mirrors like your trying to suggest.

BTW. Have you ever followed one of your 10% (by abstraction)of trucks with all axles down round a small roundabout. If you watch carefully the next time I'm sure you will be glad 90% (your figure) of trucks lift their axle because they can tear at the road surface.

 

[minimutly]

Do you have figures to back this claim up?

As many have tried to explain along with maximum length trucks have a maximum loaded weight limit and a maximum axle weight limit so if an articulated truck is loaded to its maximum then all 6 axles must be on the road carrying an evenly distributed load over the 6 axles.
Each axle must never be carrying over its maximum weight but if the load is light or the trailer empty then axles can be lifted to be kinder to the road surface and fuel consumption.
Its that simple what don't you get?

What I don't get is that this is happening so much, someone must have got their sums wrong. And 90%? Well I travel the m4 regularly, so its purely a mental count as I go allong, I doubt official figures exist, but counting isn't hard. Sure, in cities where light delivery drop lorries are more in use I would expect the number to be lower.
Ultimately the reasons you outline, whilst explaining why, don't make it right. The sheer weight of axles being carried every day alone has an overhead. We're being clobbered by every green tax going, but it seems this is fine.

 

[minimutly]

@minimutly here's a practical example-
Near the start of lockdown a relative of mine who drives an articulated truck was sent down to east anglia from Scotland with a load of fertiliser (which BTW. you also have to sit a separate test for). His trailer that trip was one of those flexible curtain sided boxes you see lots of on the road. Now his return load was Toilet rolls for Tesco's distribution warehouse is central Scotland (remember toilet roll wars early lockdown?)Now even though his trailer was full it was nowhere near the axle load or full load limits of his truck so could lift an axle to save fuel and road surface all the way back up. Perhaps he should have had an armed guard though
AFAIK. Im no trucker but there's no smoke and mirrors like your trying to suggest.

BTW. Have you ever followed one of your 10% (by abstraction)of trucks with all axles down round a small roundabout. If you watch carefully the next time I'm sure you will be glad 90% (your figure) of trucks lift their axle because they can tear at the road surface.

Yeah, I get all that.

 

[Agrismith]

What I don't get is that this is happening so much, someone must have got their sums wrong. And 90%? Well I travel the m4 regularly, so its purely a mental count as I go allong, I doubt official figures exist, but counting isn't hard. Sure, in cities where light delivery drop lorries are more in use I would expect the number to be lower.
Ultimately the reasons you outline, whilst explaining why, don't make it right. The sheer weight of axles being carried every day alone has an overhead. We're being clobbered by every green tax going, but it seems this is fine.

But I've counted last night and this morning round the m25 and i saw nowhere 90% lifted. This morning was more like 40% lifted. Likewise of the lorries that have driven through our roadworks today only a couple have been lifted.
If these lorries where not using them then either they would be ordered as 4 wheel units or ordered with a baby lift axle.
You might always travel at a particular time of day when there is a high percentage on lorries running empty. It might be that the stretch of m4 you are traveling has a lot of rdcs that distribute lite things or the lorries are all running in laden and you are only seeing the ones traveling outbound. you might not see the dropped axle lorries as they heavier so the liter lorries are traveling in the offside lane making them more obvious.
But considering that there must be atleast 30% of Lorries that only run fully laden or fully empty such as fuel tankers. Grain bulkers. Most Walking floors. Ejectors on waste work and a whole host more. And we generously assume as said before that they are laden at least 50% of the time. Then that means there is already a larger percentage with the axles dropped than you believe.

 

[Bravheart]

What I don't get is that this is happening so much, someone must have got their sums wrong. And 90%? Well I travel the m4 regularly, so its purely a mental count as I go allong, I doubt official figures exist, but counting isn't hard. Sure, in cities where light delivery drop lorries are more in use I would expect the number to be lower.
Ultimately the reasons you outline, whilst explaining why, don't make it right. The sheer weight of axles being carried every day alone has an overhead. We're being clobbered by every green tax going, but it seems this is fine.

The haulage business is a cutthroat job these guys on the whole haven't got their sums wrong. The drivers wage will be fairly similar whether he drives a 4,5 or 6 axle truck but the rate per tonne and the tonnes carried by each truck varies greatly and if you had a contract to haul Toilet rolls100% of the time then a truck with 4 axles may be the way to go but you need a return load to make the business pay and if that return load is fertiliser (as my example above) then your truck will only be legally able to haul 20 tonnes (guess) but all your other costs are pretty much the same so at a rate of £20/tonne for example you are 8 tonnes short of what a 6 axle truck can carry or £160 short on a load with similar costs. If they are £160 short on every second load they won't be in business long.