CE Marking / BS EN 1090

  1. Brad93

    Brad93 M J B Engineering

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    There’s hundreds mate it’s not a hard course
     
  2. Kent

    Kent Member

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    Let me say anyone who has ix is a way more qualified person to put a weld in than a 1090. To suggest otherwise only shows how daft this has all gotten
    I hope this BS (both meanings ) goes back in the box once we are dealing with other nations more again like the USA, Australia etc.
     
  3. Brad93

    Brad93 M J B Engineering

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    ASME IX is a WQR.

    EN 1090 is a quality control standard.

    EN 1090 doesn’t qualify you to weld.

    How you can compare those makes no sense?
     
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  4. Kent

    Kent Member

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    It was not me that did. But humour me it's a, quality standard of a "procedure "std that includes welding two bits of metal to a suitable std..
    There's thousands of lads calling themselves coded welders because of it none the less
     
  5. Brad93

    Brad93 M J B Engineering

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    I'm sorry mate I don't get what you're saying. If a company has 1090 its welders must have produced a sample that met the requirements of their WPS under BS EN 287 or ISO 9606. Therefore the could call themselves coded.

    You know as well as I do that because someone is coded it doesn't make them a good welder. It meant they could pass a test on the day with material, joint type, parameters etc all dictated to them.
     
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  6. Kent

    Kent Member

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    Well it uses the BS initials now that's true.
     
  7. Mid Wales welder

    Mid Wales welder Welder coding and NDT services

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    Not sure where you have gotten that from. You can’t even really compare the two as they are for different industries. The testing for BS stuff (wether that be 15614 for procedures or 9606 for welder Qualifications) under EN 1090 is far stricter than the testing for the equivalent ASME IX.
    It’s not going back in the box. EN1090 really isn’t that difficult to comply with and really doesn’t have to cost much either. Any decent welding/fabrication company would be doing most of this stuff anyway.
     
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  8. Mid Wales welder

    Mid Wales welder Welder coding and NDT services

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    It depends how you define an RWC? Most companies (only talking EXC 2 stuff) just send someone with a welding background on a two day course. Then have a days gap analysis at their works to check everything is in place and get issued a certificate of competence. This is usually enough to satisfy the notified bodies.
    If you are talking about RWC’s that are either IWS, IWT or IWE then I suppose there aren’t that many. It all just depends on what work is going.
     
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  9. Dimitri De Spiegeleer Member

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    I'm talking about an RWC that can really help out a company when it's got welding related problems (and not only welding standard related issues). Someone that knows his stuff.
    But if the UK runs on 2-days course guys, I doubt you really need competent RWC's... Would be a waste of time.
     
  10. Mid Wales welder

    Mid Wales welder Welder coding and NDT services

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    I think those kind of RWC’s are few and far between yes, anyone like that never has to worry about. The EXC 2 stuff is pretty straight forward so not much need for anyone like that, when you get into the bigger stuff there is a lot more call.
    Are you thinking of moving to the UK?
     
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  11. Dimitri De Spiegeleer Member

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    I've recently done some gigs in the UK (1 small one, 2 of over one week of work), and following these I've been asked by the UK NoBo that did the assessment to do auditing for them, which is something I am not at all interested in. I much prefer the fabricator side of things. However it got me thinking.
    As I already stay a decent amount of time abroad, I'm considering doing more work in the UK as well. Once you have an office there, with a physical address, companies are more inclined to do business with you. But renting something long-term needs to pay off, hence my question.

    In Belgium, RWC is a 10 day, rather intense course + 1 full examination day. And I am very familiar with the (disappointing) knowledge level of these RWC's, so I cringe at the thought of a 2-day course RWC...
    If a construction company can make do with these guys, that's most certainly not my target market. Bigger companies, like I've worked for before, are however. But if they got their own welding engineers, then again neither are they my target market. It's not easy starting somewhere without a good understanding of the situation...
     
  12. Mid Wales welder

    Mid Wales welder Welder coding and NDT services

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    Maybe you should think about doing some auditing just for a little while. That way you can see the uk industry for yourself and work out where your target market may be, all whilst being paid.
    The difrent levels of auditing in the uk is quite frankly shocking, there are certainly not enough knowledge auditors around. I have been to a company recently that didn’t even have welding procedures in place and yet had been through 3 audits!
    It is shocking that a person can just do a two day course and then be a companies RWC, but then if the NB will accept it then why would the fabricator do any differently.
     
  13. Brad93

    Brad93 M J B Engineering

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    Sounds like the Belgian RWC course is something I wouldn’t mind going on.

    I’ve heard the UK one is absolute carp.
    A friend of mine who works for one of the biggest oil & gas sector contractors around went on it and was failed, basically for backchatting the instructor who was talking rubbish.

    There’s not many people more qualified than him in the UK, both from a practical and theory stand point so when he says something you usually need to listen up, he has been there, got the tshirt ten times over.

    When you get an RWC or even a welding engineer telling you that something a £6ph mig monkey has welded with undercut and a weave is acceptable you’ve got to start questioning what the point is behind 1090. It’s meant to raise standards but all it has done is make a few people very rich and put a load of red tape in the path of companies already doing everything properly.

    The bottom end fabricators are still doing everything as cheap and quickly as they could, the guys in the middle are struggling to pay for the standard and turn a profit out of it and for the big firms it was a doddle.
     
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  14. Dimitri De Spiegeleer Member

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    The Belgian RWC course is a very condensed summary of the IWS course, with all modules as prescribed in https://www.ewf.be/exemplos2/listagem/welding_coordination.aspx pertaining to carbon steel (so it doesn't apply for stainless of ally construction companies). If you're interested (and you speak dutch or french), I'd be happy to introduce you to the Belgian Welding Institute.

    If that is the general idea, you're applying the standard in a wrong way.

    The statement:
    is a wrong base premiss.

    EN1090 has got nothing to do with quality. CE means conformité européenne, the produced constructions should be conform to the 7 basic requirements as layed out in the CPR (stability, safety (2x), hygiene, noise, energy, use of natural resources). You'll find nowhere quality. You will find however, the obligation to use weldable grades of steel (stability), to produce the necessary for calculations (stability and safety), and the rest of the basic requirements don't really apply in this standard. Quality is merely a side effect of the EN1090, for those that are interested in it.
     
  15. Brad93

    Brad93 M J B Engineering

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    Well I would say quality is a side effect of traceability which seems to be the main aim of 1090 in the UK.

    Unfortunately I do not speak Dutch but was looking at doing the EWS with TWI here.

    I will do the RWC course at some point as there is some work in the near future where it would be advantageous.
     
  16. Dimitri De Spiegeleer Member

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    Traceability in EXC2?
     
  17. Dimitri De Spiegeleer Member

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    It's been well over a month now since the 2018 version of EN 1090-2 has been published in the UK, more than time enough to at least have it read through... How do all of you RWCs like the changes?
     
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  18. Mid Wales welder

    Mid Wales welder Welder coding and NDT services

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    When does this standard become active and auditors start enforcing it? Does it have a two year co existence period?
     
  19. Brad93

    Brad93 M J B Engineering

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    “Enforcing” lol
     
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  20. Welderpaul

    Welderpaul Moderator Staff Member

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    CE Marking (and ISO9001) cost us in the region of 50 grand to implement (Execution Class 3). It costs 10 grand a year to maintain.
    90% of our customers are big names in the construction industry and know all about CE Marking. We would potentially have lost 90% of our work overnight if we had not obtained the accreditation.

    I know for a fact there are a multitude of fabrication companies who have not bothered to get it and are still producing fabricated structural steelwork. They are breaking the law and the director risks a prison sentence.

    Enforcement? Totally non existent. There was the thought in the fab world that they would go after one or two of the big fabricators, find something, and make an example of them to scare the others into complying. Nah. Nowt.
     
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