Stop it with the ibc tanks @gaz1 , there is no material gain there..
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addjunkie
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Its ok, sure the IBCs will be camouflaged as part if the planning application. I suspect that once all the box ticking is investigated one might loose the will to live.
Gareth J
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Ok, fair enough. I didn't imagine the penstock piping would be something that could be done cheaply but you know what you've got available.
Coincidentally, the only thing I've ever 3d printed (sintered) was a pelton wheel. About 20years ago, the printer was the size of a minibus.
Regarding cheap and easy electrics, my suggestion is easiest to me, because I'm familiar with it. And because running HV wild AC back to an inverter will reduce cable costs. But I can see that copying a tiny wind turbine and using a DC charge controller and batteries is an accessible option. You need something to control the load on the machine and stop you potentially feeding the grid during a power cut.
gaz1
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it has plenty of material gain as well as gravity gain to use one
your not damming and flooding your land up, the dam is not silting up or filling with debris ( leaves )
it can be used a diverter of the supply of the stream the spinner acts as a self cleaner of debris
pressure is gained due to the 1000 litre water head 2 ibc tanks stacked on top of one another would give more add even more to them for winter collection of water
so thats 8000 litres prestored you can even double that amount 16000 litres all piped into a pipe with 48meters of head
the same system is in houses the high water tank filled from low water areas that goes to your emersion tank before it comes out of your tap whilst that system only has a head of 4-5 metres in a 2 storey house
you lose 1 meter of head for the filtration system but the dont lose any head of the ibc tanks that are filling up from the stream but you do gain water pressure due to the amount of water stacked in the ibc tanks double height gives you more pressure
Using an induction motor as a generator is the simplest since it's matched to grid frequency and if grid goes down it stops generating since it needs the grid to maintain the magnetic field (which is why they add run capacitors to the motors on the off grid setups. You can also jump run a centrifugal water pump as a "pump as turbine" setup where you feed water into it thus generating power but it needs a decent flow/pressure as they're not efficient.
I've also noticed that there's these grid tied inverters which could work for an unofficial setup and it seems a few use them for no battery bank setups.
Gareth J
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Gaz, your idea of the scale of the project is way off. One IBC represents ~3minutes of storage. You probably can barely get it out of the IBC fast enough. And for storage to have any meaningful contribution, you'd want days, weeks or months worth. 1000s of IBCs.
Gareth J
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I get that an induction motor could work. But I don't see how you you would control it. Rudimentary nozzle selection and flow control isn't going to cope. And, in the event of a power cut, how it would know that its own generated AC wasn't the grid?
I mean, the same question regarding grid sensing could be asked about inverters. And I don't know how they do it. But they do and are able to shut down very quickly.
essentially if the grid goes down there's too much load on the motor so it'll stop / voltage drop too low to really do anything...
you're not allowed to do it... but that's how it works - think a lot of people in other countries run that kind of setup
personally I'd go with a cheap grid tie inverter on from ebay and save the hassle
a normally closed contactor could be added so if the grid fails it closes, shorts out the motor contacts and brakes it... not awesome for it but better than overspeed
Gareth J
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Directed at me?
No. More like this, if you're talking about above ground;
Safe and affordable slurry pit with minimal environmental impact
Practical, safe and affordable slurry pit with openings in panels, rapid installation and minimal environmental impact!
agri-tank.com
But realistically, a lagoon. Or millpond. You keep linking to drinking water supply/rainwater harvesting projects.
It basically controls itself being connected to the grid and the penstock will be a constant flow/pressure with excess spilling back into the stream so just adjust the valve before the nozzle to the point it's spinning a couple percent faster than synchronous speed for a negative slip aka generating.
If there's a power cut then it stops generating as the magnetic field collapses which it needs from the grid to work unless you have run capacitors in the system.
DC generator into solar inverter would be easiest and cheapest, and cope with drooping pressure (or flow if you can control it) best. As for this nonsense with ibcs forget it (or rather, ignore it)...
You need a motorized valve to switch off the water when the flow dies, if it dies, and a way of flushing out debris and dead animals...
Yes but you need to switch it off at low/zero kW otherwise it will motor, actually using power when water pressure drops off (which will happen, I guarantee you).
Yea just gotta figure out how to measure the motor, I wonder if one of those inline electricity power meters would be able to detect that it's providing instead of using? Set up a measurement system and if power drops low enough have it shutoff a valve or open it fully if it's not already open
Farside
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As I mentioned earlier, keep it simple.
Just use it as low grade heating.
The benefits will soon show themselves and you needn't worry about interconnectors or anything like that, unless in the unlikely event you actually build something substantial with a large output.
I was going to use an undershot wheel with gearing to drive a lorry alternator - then take the AC into a transformer to around 240V for transmission to an immersion heater.
Cheap and simple.
Just use it as low grade heating.
The benefits will soon show themselves and you needn't worry about interconnectors or anything like that, unless in the unlikely event you actually build something substantial with a large output.
I was going to use an undershot wheel with gearing to drive a lorry alternator - then take the AC into a transformer to around 240V for transmission to an immersion heater.
Cheap and simple.
This would be dodgy at best, dangerous in other words...
The point being, if the grid fails, your generator has to disconnect - for safety reasons (if the grid failure is a local short you will be directly "across it", if it's remote and someone ends up working on it they could be killed. If there is a G59 type of relay it should disconnect the system.
Oddly, the simple asynchronous generator takes care of itself, in that in an open circuit fault the current goes to zero, thereby generation collapses. Adding capacitors (ie making 3 phase motors work on single phase) can override this, maintaining the current - so you really, legally need a G59/99 relay, if its mains connected.
Classically, there will always be a low generation cutoff point, where the main contactor drops out and a valve closes, below a certain output.
premmington
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I been following this with interest - you do need allot of water to get a couple of KW of electricity don't you!
Farside
Badly Welded Man
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You seem to have the wrong end of the stick.
gaz1
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ive been looking at the tesla turbine as that thing really spins fast when i was researching how to build a turbine a steam turbine is a no go but the piston side of it is simple
the telsa turbine is simple and it can be printed
but they spin really fast but for generation would the telsa be better instead of the spoons but you can also push this tech even further with a vortex
the telsa turbine is simple and it can be printed
but they spin really fast but for generation would the telsa be better instead of the spoons but you can also push this tech even further with a vortex
