Anyone have any knowledge/experience on micro hydro setups?

[Gareth J]

if your fully moving it i would agree but if you was blocking it ( temporary ) and pumping the water after the works lets say 3m and was still going down the same water coarse it ran in

then its red tape filled with you cant do it as its not in our best interests

they can also be stack on as well

we all have roofs and when it does rain theres alot of power there all flowing down your drains

you can also create 2 generators with just that type of flow before it goes down into the mains

It doesn't matter how long it's removed from the water course. If it's removed, diverted, whatever, it needs an abstraction licence from EA. If you tell them.

There's sweetFA energy available from roof water. The catchment is tiny.

 

[Newlands]

MartyT on YouTube has a couple of small hydro generators, made from old washing machines. Well worth watching his videos - he has several, including one on the energy management system he has built, and a couple on setting up the pipework and doing maintenance on the turbine.

 

[Robotstar5]

MartyT on YouTube has a couple of small hydro generators, made from old washing machines. Well worth watching his videos - he has several, including one on the energy management system he has built, and a couple on setting up the pipework and doing maintenance on the turbine.

I've been following him for a while, good channel.

 

[gaz1]

I've been following him for a while, good channel.

ive done the same however he dosnt know certain things or his last build would have changed

but to gain speed its tipped for better speed so less on the bucket size

with this difference he could have had 2 water wheels generating twice the power

 

[Bki26]

Well I managed to get around to standing in the stream with a bucket and was getting on the only section I could easily get the bucket under about 6L/s but it wasn't the full flow so probably closer to 8L/s and that's with it being somewhat dry the last couple of days so 6L/s is a good baseline.

Using a barometer app I measured approx 50m of head 0.3 miles upstream but probably wouldn't go that far so more like 45m as a baseline for head.

So that gives an estimate of 1.8kw at 70%.


As for the electrical side of it I'm thinking a standard little blue induction motor geared correctly and connected to the grid spun faster than the synchronous speed should backfeed thus the net total consumed from the grid for the house should be lower as it'll provide some of the power.

Alternatively I can get a ebike motor which would spin at the right rpm without gearing or use the 1.2kw treadmill motor and use one of these wind turbine charge controllers since only difference is it's water spinning it not wind but the motor doesn't know that, then feed the power into a battery bank connected to an inverter.

There is also the Morningstar Tristar TS-45 solar controller which I've seen recommend for hydro/wind so that might work.

 

[gaz1]

whats your fall on the land where the water flows as this is also important ( highest point to lowest point )

but if you are thinking of temporary blocking the flow build a chute channel past where you intend to work and start pre blocking it so then it still continues to flow over whilst building the water behind the blockage/dam part

 

[addjunkie]

whats your fall on the land where the water flows as this is also important ( highest point to lowest point )

but if you are thinking of temporary blocking the flow build a chute channel past where you intend to work and start pre blocking it so then it still continues to flow over whilst building the water behind the blockage/dam part

45 m of head quoted above.

Your efficiency figure will vary hugely on what your using the water to drive. A good quality pelton wheel might be up75% ish. But other drivers driven by the water will be far lower, with a traditional paddle wheel being down in the 30s

 

[minimutly]

45m static head... Then you need to decide what size pipe (the penstock) you want to use to keep the pressure loss to 10% or less. The lower the velocity, no of fittings, joints etc the less the losses. I have a little excel spreadsheet on my phone I made up, so I can plug the values in without doing sheets of calcs all the time. A pro designed pelton (one of the issues is the flow control - the spear valve), it needs to concentrate the jet at the bucket, anyway, efficiencies of these can be high 80%, but then the generator will likely be in the 80s also.
Losses everywhere I'm afraid

 

[Gareth J]

Enough energy to play with.... next step, price up the penstock of an appropriate pressure rating and diameter. You can use cheaper, wider diameter, lower pressure rated pipework up the hill, to reduce cost/resistance. But 300m of anything is going to be significant. Before considering getting it in place.

A quick ROI calc based on this cost alone might be enough to knock it on the head.

I think the most appropriate generation technique will be to use an inverter and all of the protections it provides. Send wild AC from a 3phase generator to a rectifier, then to an inverter that can be programmed with a load curve that tries to keep the turbine spinning at the most efficient speed/s

 

[Bki26]

45m static head... Then you need to decide what size pipe (the penstock) you want to use to keep the pressure loss to 10% or less. The lower the velocity, no of fittings, joints etc the less the losses. I have a little excel spreadsheet on my phone I made up, so I can plug the values in without doing sheets of calcs all the time. A pro designed pelton (one of the issues is the flow control - the spear valve), it needs to concentrate the jet at the bucket, anyway, efficiencies of these can be high 80%, but then the generator will likely be in the 80s also.
Losses everywhere I'm afraid

Yea I know it's not gonna be perfectly efficient but any power generated is better than nothing, ideally gonna keep an eye on marketplace for anything above 30mm? seen a few coils of blue water pipe going cheap (one currently local is 50m of 50mm for £50 lol)

 

[Bki26]

I think the most appropriate generation technique will be to use an inverter and all of the protections it provides. Send wild AC from a 3phase generator to a rectifier, then to an inverter that can be programmed with a load curve that tries to keep the turbine spinning at the most efficient speed/s

The 1.2kw permanent magnet treadmill motor is rated 180vdc at 4400rpm but obviously it is not going to be spinning at that speed directly to a pelton wheel so perhaps feeding an inverter it will spin slower thus lower voltage but it's probably easier using an ebike motor as they're low rpm 48v 3 phase and would work with one of these cheap hybrid charge controllers.

Trying to get it as simple/cheap as possible so would be making most of it myself just gotta wrap my head around the electrical side of it, there is perfect grid tie limited inverter/controllers out there that you're looking upwards of £700 just for that one part which is why I was thinking of the simple option of an induction motor simply turning faster than the synchronous speed meaning any high loads would be covered by the grid and not trip an inverter etc

 

[gaz1]

id advise checking this vid for 1kw of power also note the pipeage as well as you have the height

now this one is 60m of head dual nozzle 4kw motor needed for 2.5kw output

 

[tigdlo]

The 1.2kw permanent magnet treadmill motor is rated 180vdc at 4400rpm but obviously it is not going to be spinning at that speed directly to a pelton wheel so perhaps feeding an inverter it will spin slower thus lower voltage but it's probably easier using an ebike motor as they're low rpm 48v 3 phase and would work with one of these cheap hybrid charge controllers.

Trying to get it as simple/cheap as possible so would be making most of it myself just gotta wrap my head around the electrical side of it, there is perfect grid tie limited inverter/controllers out there that you're looking upwards of £700 just for that one part which is why I was thinking of the simple option of an induction motor simply turning faster than the synchronous speed meaning any high loads would be covered by the grid and not trip an inverter etc

I'm pretty sure pipe of a reasonable diameter to prevent losses that can hold 5 bar pressure, 0.3 miles long will be the most expensive part of the system.

 

[gaz1]

this stream is 6.5l per second

18.5m head new stream 14m head

100mm pipe

this is the daming of the stream for the turbine

Post in thread 'Im bored...... so i want to biuld a garden fountain, a big fountain, a really really big fountain'

Feb 12, 2023

there is another place for calculations but thats on gravity fed system via a weir or a stream feed system

you get 2 numbers on the vid for this is the second dam the nozzle choice is down to you

the first one is made from this and piped down to the head gives 1kw

• gaz1

 

[Gareth J]

The 1.2kw permanent magnet treadmill motor is rated 180vdc at 4400rpm but obviously it is not going to be spinning at that speed directly to a pelton wheel so perhaps feeding an inverter it will spin slower thus lower voltage but it's probably easier using an ebike motor as they're low rpm 48v 3 phase and would work with one of these cheap hybrid charge controllers.

Trying to get it as simple/cheap as possible so would be making most of it myself just gotta wrap my head around the electrical side of it, there is perfect grid tie limited inverter/controllers out there that you're looking upwards of £700 just for that one part which is why I was thinking of the simple option of an induction motor simply turning faster than the synchronous speed meaning any high loads would be covered by the grid and not trip an inverter etc

Park the thinking about all that until you're sure the big costs are doable...

I'm pretty sure pipe of a reasonable diameter to prevent losses that can hold 5 bar pressure, 0.3 miles long will be the most expensive part of the system.

Because this is likely very true!

 

[Bki26]

I'm pretty sure pipe of a reasonable diameter to prevent losses that can hold 5 bar pressure, 0.3 miles long will be the most expensive part of the system.

It's probably be closer to 0.2 miles having checked boundaries and realistically it won't need hold a lot of pressure for the majority of the pipe

 

[Bki26]

Park the thinking about all that until you're sure the big costs are doable

Most of it I can do myself as got the tools and can scavenge parts/materials for free if not scrap value and even make my own pelton spoons since they're pretty expensive (cast ali or get them cheaply 3d printed in nylon etc), I'm just trying to figure out the most affordable and simple way for the electrical side as that's probably the biggest hurdle/expense.

 

[gaz1]

lets say you use an ibc tank that gives alot of pressure down a pipe of say 100mm 150mm would be better

now your run is 50m of head down that pipe + the 1000L ibc tank at the top creates a considerable amount of pressure going through a small nozzle

 

[Bki26]

Got a couple of ibcs (icbm would be more fun ) so was thinking one as the intake silt separator/storage instead of doing something like a coanda intake/rolling screen.

 

[Bki26]

Worst case I can just go to the local charity shop if pelton spoons are too hard

https://www.appropedia.org/Pico-hydro_Turgo_Turbine_-_Rwanda_DIY