Anyone have any knowledge/experience on micro hydro setups?

[Bki26]

A friend has a decent flowing stream by the back of their house/farm and was wondering if they could rig up a hydroelectric system to help with the electricity bill when running the air source heat pump and other stuff in the property.

I've got a decent treadmill motor I was planning on integrating with my mini lathe however probably never going to do it so it would be perfect for a hydro system I just can't find much on how you do the electrical side of it all!

I've seen you can also use simple induction motor and by connecting it to the grid and spinning it faster than what it spins at as a motor backfeeds into the grid at the right frequency thus taking some of the load you normally would be pulling whilst not requiring expensive fancy electronics to control it so perhaps that would be a simpler option.

I've also seen all these solar/wind power charge controllers that have a dump load module for wind turbines so wonder if something like that would work but with the generator being spun by hydro not wind.

Any wisdom is appreciated!

 

[Brad93]

You need a serious amount of head to make any useful electricity.
A stream will struggle to light a small incandescent bulb

 

[tigdlo]

As above, measure the head and flow, then you can calculate the energy the water has.

kris Harbour natural building or something like that on Youtube has a few good videos on small scale hydro electric.

 

[colnerov]

Give Kris Harbour a look on Youtube He's done two or three hydro systems, both wheels and turbines, and wind as well.

https://www.youtube.com/@KrisHarbour/featured

 

[julianthegypsy]

As said, head is the important thing. A small stream can produce very well if you can make a weir and run a pipe from the top of a hill to the bottom. Then a small jet would be under say 5 bar pressure and spin a turbine very nicely.

 

[daleyd]

I’ve seen pipes run through streams for use in heat pump systems, may be worth exploring if not suitable for generation?

 

[Agroshield]

Any wisdom is appreciated!

As you know, this country runs on bureacracy, so check what hoops you have to jump through to satisfy that:

What hydro licensing is needed ? - Renewables First

Hydro licensing consists of planning permission form the local authority and environmental consents from the national environmental regulator.

renewablesfirst.co.uk

 

[Erie Fred]

I’ve seen pipes run through streams for use in heat pump systems, may be worth exploring if not suitable for generation?

Good idea, however the water can do 2 jobs at once as well.

 

[daleyd]

Good idea, however the water can do 2 jobs at once as well.

Yes, agreed, if it’s suitable.

 

[addjunkie]

We actually have a forum member who does such things for a living, sure he will be along presently. @minimutly

As said, head is the important thing. A small stream can produce very well if you can make a weir and run a pipe from the top of a hill to the bottom. Then a small jet would be under say 5 bar pressure and spin a turbine very nicely.

5 bar of static head would be near enough 50m of fall. Roughly 1 bar every 10 meters. I tried a small water wheel to generate in our stream…waster of time, idea was to heat the green house. I looked st buying a proper turbine bit from Canada but they were astronomically expensive for what they were.

Also suspect the environment agency wouldnt like you messing with their water in your river.

 

[Bki26]

You need a serious amount of head to make any useful electricity.
A stream will struggle to light a small incandescent bulb

I say stream but it's a couple of metres wide and a constant fast flow if I remember correctly

 

[Bki26]

I’ve seen pipes run through streams for use in heat pump systems, may be worth exploring if not suitable for generation?

Hmm that sounds interesting, do you have anymore info/what to search for? I believe it's an air source heat pump but it's costing so much to run they rarely use it to heat the house unless necessary.

 

[Farside]

A friend has a decent flowing stream by the back of their house/farm and was wondering if they could rig up a hydroelectric system to help with the electricity bill when running the air source heat pump and other stuff in the property.

Same here. I looked into it fairly closely about 20 years ago.
I came to the conclusion that it would just about run a small alternator to keep the hot water cylinder topped up and that was about it. Still, it would have been worthwhile if I'd got all the bits for nothing and not included my time.
Otoh, what makes micro hydro worthwhile is using it as a baseline heat source in the winter - nothing worse than freezing your nuts off when there's free power outside.

 

[gaz1]

i wouldnt use the water wheel generator as its jerks when loaded with water

from the wood video its 6 bar needed

Post in thread 'Curious device'

Mar 7, 2024

these videos are examples
wood wheel of old sawmill to turbine flow 900rpms

homemade turbine 1.5kw

a homemade turbine is the most hardest things to build for the normal diyer but it can be done it all depends on water or steam that is used

a steam piston drive is not fast enough but a steam turbine is

• gaz1

waterwheel 50 gallons a second compared to turbine at 8 gallons per second

now if you have a low lieing stream with very little head you can swap to the vortex turbine generator but depends on the speed of the water

 

[daleyd]

Hmm that sounds interesting, do you have anymore info/what to search for? I believe it's an air source heat pump but it's costing so much to run they rarely use it to heat the house unless necessary.

Water source heat pumps seems to bring up the right kind of things…

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a806aaf40f0b6230269361c/navigating_the_way_a_customer_journey_for_potential_developers.pdf

I don’t really have any info other than I’ve seen a few installs when I’ve been out and about walking, and it always seemed interesting.

 

[oldbikedavey]

33,000 ft /lbs/ minute = 0.751 kW .

 

[addjunkie]

Hmm that sounds interesting, do you have anymore info/what to search for? I believe it's an air source heat pump but it's costing so much to run they rarely use it to heat the house unless necessary.

But heat pumps are the future, he just needs to embrace the cost! Ground source heat pump style set up would be required to remove heat from the stream.

Water source heat pumps | Kensa

A water source heat pump uses submerged pipework to absorb energy from water sources such as lakes, ponds, rivers, aquifers and mine water. It’s the same unit as a ground source heat pump, however, the heat source they use and the way they collect the heat is different.

kensa.co.uk

 

[minimutly]

Flow in litres per second, times head in meters, times 9.81, times 0.7 for efficiency will give you power in Watts.
If you move water out of the watercourse you are deemed to be abstracting it, will need a licence. Which needs all kinds of studies etc, depending on the watercourse. The (EU) habitats directive has all sorts of implications making life hard for you..

 

[Gareth J]

As above, a back of the envelope calc is the first port of call.

An outside the box idea, use the flow to run a heat pump compressor directly. And use the water as it passes as the heat source.

 

[gaz1]

Flow in litres per second, times head in meters, times 9.81, times 0.7 for efficiency will give you power in Watts.
If you move water out of the watercourse you are deemed to be abstracting it, will need a licence. Which needs all kinds of studies etc, depending on the watercourse. The (EU) habitats directive has all sorts of implications making life hard for you..

if your fully moving it i would agree but if you was blocking it ( temporary ) and pumping the water after the works lets say 3m and was still going down the same water coarse it ran in

then its red tape filled with you cant do it as its not in our best interests

they can also be stack on as well

we all have roofs and when it does rain theres alot of power there all flowing down your drains

you can also create 2 generators with just that type of flow before it goes down into the mains