Petrol/Diesel prices near you

[Domdom]

Well, although it’s still relatively cheap, diesel has gone up about 21c a litre. Yesterday it was €1.41 but the big names like Repsol and Moeve are as high as €1.75.
The budget brand here, Plenergy, busier than normal but no huge queues.

Canals. Yeah it’s been looked at extensively before. The main issue is all the JIT methods now being used in distribution. I recall there’s a power station near Uxbridge I think that uses barges for coal, although it could well have been shut down by Miliband. More generally though, canals are too slow for food, but even all the things we take for granted. Next day delivery would cease to be a thing, which I live with here in Spain on a regular basis, but the UK is much more of a “microwave” society (PING, I want it NOW)

And then there’s the capacity of the canal network. Wholly insufficient for the sheer amount of freight that gets moved these days.

 

[Farside]

Canals were built for slow but steady movement of bulk stuff, like coal, pottery ware, finished iron goods.
Once you set a train of boats in motion, there was a steady discharge at the other end, even if the actual journey took a week.
Wouldn't work for many things these days, but it would work for some.
Oh, and they also relied on rubbish wages.

 

[Cato]

I reckon AI and automation could take care of navigation. In terms of timing then systems like JIT etc are based around arrival times at point of use. So currently a truck leaves a distribution centre with the goods on Monday the 17th to arrive on the 18th. To maintain the same strategy/timing all it would mean is a canal boat leaving on Monday the 10th for arrival on Tuesday the 18th. Obviously all this applies to industrial/commercial rather than Shanika's online order of hair extensions arriving next day.

Trucks will always be needed for some trips, or at least some parts, but even if 50% went by water the cost savings would be huge, and the carbon/environmental benefits would be disproportionately large.

 

[Robotstar5]

Boats are a very efficient way of moving things.

Quick google gives you the numbers - "Traditionally, a single horse was sufficient to tow fully laden narrowboats, often pulling 50+ tons at walking pace. While 1hp is the technical equivalent, a horse can exert up to 15hp in short bursts, making it more effective than a 1hp motor. Modern narrowboats typically use 30-60hp diesel engines, although only 2-5hp is needed for canal speeds."

But when you think about it - a fully ladened 44 ton lorry and trailer - can get near 8-10 mpg now - which I think is good compared to a 1.8 ish ton car that does 40-60 mpg - (that is English gallons @Erie Fred )

You wouldn't be able to use a horse these days, a few years ago Mrs Robo and a friend were enjoying a ride along a local towpath when they were told "horses are not allowed on here", a bit ironic when you consider the reason they were built.

 

[Greeves246]

You wouldn't be able to use a horse these days, a few years ago Mrs Robo and a friend were enjoying a ride along a local towpath when they were told "horses are not allowed on here", a bit ironic when you consider the reason they were built.

Permission required but still possible

horseboating

For hundreds of years, horses were the backbone of industry. They ploughed fields and pulled carts all over the country. It's lesser known that they also hauled narrowboats laden with freight.

canalrivertrust.org.uk

 

[Mick Annick]

Diesel 1.75 to 1.78 euro per litre
Gasoline 1.67 to 1.72 euro per litre

I paid €1.799 for 95 grade yesterday

 

[Trevorleach]

Drivers tell me Maidstone and Fleet services have no diesel.

 

[Greeves246]

BP garage 149.9 today up from 141.9 on Tuesday. That’s ridiculous.

 

[Farside]

I paid €1.799 for 95 grade yesterday

Same here, today.
No queue, nobody seemed bothered, perfectly normal Friday business level.
Friday is normally a busy day in this one-horse town.
I didn't see any more zombies that usual, either.
Dublin's the place for those.

 

[Dapph2]

EVs have their place, but that's the 'last mile' thing. The HGVs that trunk the goods to the distribution warehouses are all diesel, and there are a lot of them.

I've often thought that if the powers that be really were serious about cleaning up transport they'd open up the canal network to commercial boats and make them electric. A canal barge would be ideal to convert given what they do and that they're never more than a stone's throw from a grid connection.

Choo Choo trains can do that but it takes a couple of days longer and then the horse cows donkeys & dog carts deliver to the home .

 

[Dapph2]

Until they have to use the diesel generator powered charging points ............

Today our power wall was fully charged by 12.00 hrs both from the roof PV panels and from the local solar farm output .

 

[Dapph2]

The problem with canals and rail is that they only go to limited places, so you still need to load onto lorries at either end which means triple handling every item which is ridiculously inefficient.

As a nation that's surrounded by the sea you'd be better off putting stuff on insore boats to move it around the coast than trying to dig thousands of miles of canals through people's back yards. It'll get you as close as a canal will but at zero cost.

Come Zombie time it won't matter much about efficiency . Getting your canals to run up hills might be a real skunner though .

 

[DanZac]

Getting your canals to run up hills might be a real skunner though .

They seemed to manage it without too many problems in the "good old days".

Caen Hill Locks - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Dapph2]

BP garage 149.9 today up from 141.9 on Tuesday. That’s ridiculous.

Remember the gulf oil tankers have been suffering because of Iran rocketing's & gun boat activity around the straits of Hormoz for about two months so price increase were bound to happen eventually .

A ship's bunkerage from China to the UK is almost 20 % more than it was 3 months ago apparently .

 

[Dapph2]

They seemed to manage it without too many problems in the "good old days".

View attachment 532199

Caen Hill Locks - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The water runs down hill

 

[Ton-up]

Just before Christmas I was chatting to a consultant that came in to our work to set up and test the emissions of our biomass boiler. He works on all sizes of biomass boilers and is a energy geek!

If I remember right, He was saying that in his opinion, the UK will have petrol/diesel shortages in 5-7 years. This is because we only have one refinery now, and that is flat out. If it has a breakdown etc, we will not have the capacity.
He was ranting on about shortsighted politicions but didnt mention wars!!

 

[Dapph2]

I reckon AI and automation could take care of navigation. In terms of timing then systems like JIT etc are based around arrival times at point of use. So currently a truck leaves a distribution centre with the goods on Monday the 17th to arrive on the 18th. To maintain the same strategy/timing all it would mean is a canal boat leaving on Monday the 10th for arrival on Tuesday the 18th. Obviously all this applies to industrial/commercial rather than Shanika's online order of hair extensions arriving next day.

Trucks will always be needed for some trips, or at least some parts, but even if 50% went by water the cost savings would be huge, and the carbon/environmental benefits would be disproportionately large.

In Paris because Adolf and his motley brigands didn't bomb it flat there is massive road congestion in the city So it was decided about 1984 that they decant HGV trucks at peripheral depots and use diesel or battery vans to take all but the biggest of loads into the city . IIRC usually between 23.59 and 0530 hrs daily Big loads have to have special planning and bible of permissions& dockets which must be strictly adhered to even by the French truckies & companies .

 

[julianthegypsy]

EVs have their place, but that's the 'last mile' thing. The HGVs that trunk the goods to the distribution warehouses are all diesel, and there are a lot of them.

I've often thought that if the powers that be really were serious about cleaning up transport they'd open up the canal network to commercial boats and make them electric. A canal barge would be ideal to convert given what they do and that they're never more than a stone's throw from a grid connection.

That would be interesting as there are more boats on the canals now than there were when it was used commercially, and there's less canals.
I have seen electric powered boats, a friend had one powered by solar. He reckoned a day's charging from his panels gave him a day's cruising. Obviously if he was plugging inhe could charge overnight and cruise every day.

 

[addjunkie]

Remember the gulf oil tankers have been suffering because of Iran rocketing's & gun boat activity around the straits of Hormoz for about two months so price increase were bound to happen eventually .

A ship's bunkerage from China to the UK is almost 20 % more than it was 3 months ago apparently .

Oil price has crept up again touching 90 a barrel now. But there is a positive as I own shares in both BP and shell, both of which are up, as higher oil price means higher profits.

Charter rates are astronomical now due to inability to get insurance to go up into the Gulf. Dont forget allthe other products made from oil too, fuel is only a small percentage of whats produced from a barrel of oil too.

Google Image Result for https://www.visualcapitalist.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/barrel-of-oil-infographic.png

 

[Blobber]

Another nail in the coffin for the poor old farmers