Decent quality belt ( for trousers )

[grim_d]

Agreed they eventually died, but 7 billion a year are now murdered in the prime of their lives at the hands of Humans. Something of a difference I would say.

As I pointed out earlier, I would have no problem re-using dead bodies provided that the death was natural and not murder most foul.

To illustrate that a bit better, I have bequeathed my remains to medical science. I will have no use for it and hopefully they might.

It's not murder, these animals are a commodity, they serve a purpose and if it wasn't for that purpose the vast majority of them would never exist in the first place, not existing and being slaughtered both end up with the same net result, an animal is not alive.

(I won't deny we do things to excess however)

I'm up for the slaughter of a few select humans if it makes you feel any better? Plenty of us are less useful than any livestock.

 

[keithski122]

I've always wondered what would happen to cows if we stopped eating them, farmers wouldn't keep them, they don't wander freely in the wild and you wouldn't want one as a pet.Would they then become extinct?

 

[addjunkie]

I've always wondered what would happen to cows if we stopped eating them, farmers wouldn't keep them, they don't wander freely in the wild and you wouldn't want one as a pet.Would they then become extinct?

Thats the bits the green eco vegists warriors miss!

 

[ajlelectronics]

It's not murder, these animals are a commodity,

No sentient being is a commodity. That having been said, there was a time when Humans were just that but we evolved into slightly nicer people. Murder is the deliberate taking of life, in cold blood no matter how the meat industry try to sanitise it with fluffy words like "cull".

they serve a purpose and if it wasn't for that purpose the vast majority of them would never exist in the first place, not existing and being slaughtered both end up with the same net result, an animal is not alive.

The difference is that they would also not suffer every day of their short lives. Again, I point you to the appalling treatment of other Humans in the deep south. Better not to be born than to suffer cruelty every day. I have done my research, I know exactly what goes on and I regularly see the death trucks pass by my house on their way to the killing factory. Anyone with any heart whatever has to be moved by that.

I'm up for the slaughter of a few select humans if it makes you feel any better? Plenty of us are less useful than any livestock.

I would have a short list too, mostly animal abusers. However as that would bring me down to their level, I prefer to show others the love that I would like them to show the defenceless and try to get them to at least consider if there is an equally good or even better alternative, before plumping for the one that causes such appalling cruelty. I absolutely abhor the activities of the so called "eco warriors" who get labelled "Vegans". They do not speak for me.

 

[ajlelectronics]

I've always wondered what would happen to cows if we stopped eating them, farmers wouldn't keep them, they don't wander freely in the wild and you wouldn't want one as a pet.Would they then become extinct?

Probably the intensively bred would and that would be a good thing. It is unlikely that there would be total extinction, because it is possible, although less profitable to dairy farm with love and compassion. One excellent example is the farm here: Ahimsa cruelty free dairy farm.

 

[MattF]

Don't get the thread locked.

 

[ajlelectronics]

Don't get the thread locked.

I'm trying to be nice! However the reactions are akin to a drug addict denied their next fix! All I have asked is for people to be thoughtful about the origin of what they use.

 

[MattF]

We know. As Mary Poppins said though: Enough's as good as a feast. Let it lay now, please.

 

[addjunkie]

Probably the intensively bred would and that would be a good thing. It is unlikely that there would be total extinction, because it is possible, although less profitable to dairy farm with love and compassion. One excellent example is the farm here: Ahimsa cruelty free dairy farm.

There may be compassionate farms in general, but sadly the extremists some of which are anti anything animal would disagree with you. As for cruelty free dairy…Even as a meat eater and someone who was elbow deep inside an animal yesterday trying to save a little life, Im inclined to disagree, as the calfs who the milk is produced for are removed from the mother, and the by product of dairy farming still goes for meat once fattened.

But wasn't this thread about replacing a bit of baler twin with a suitable quality belt!

 

[Agrismith]

I've always wondered what would happen to cows if we stopped eating them, farmers wouldn't keep them, they don't wander freely in the wild and you wouldn't want one as a pet.Would they then become extinct?

On top of extinction of the livestock There would be untold ecological problems if we stopped animal agriculture and turned everything over to arable agriculture. Arable agriculture is sterile monocultures and essentially terrible for biodiversity, on top of which we poor chemicals in the form of herbicides pesticides and fungicides as well as oil basses fertilizer.


I also disagree that livestock are treated cruelly. There maybe the odd farmer who deserves to have everything removed from them but most are compassionate for their animals, they feed them well and give them a good life whilst they where on the farm. Hardly comparable to how slaves where treated. Unhappy livestock is simply not a good business plan and in no way benefits the farmer. It's a business and happy healthy animals are the most profitable. So therefore it makes sense to keep them well.

It's not exactly a bad life and I'm sure if you offered the majority of the population an all inclusive free stay for no work on the condition they took a ride to an unknown destination that they would sign up to it.
You can't personify them and you imply your understanding of death on them. We only know what death is as we are taught from a young age. You can't teach animals what death is and they must learn from experience. Therefore they can't learn what death is.
They can learn fear of mistreatment yes, but not fear of death.

 

[slim_boy_fat]

I've always wondered what would happen to cows if we stopped eating them, farmers wouldn't keep them, they don't wander freely in the wild and you wouldn't want one as a pet.Would they then become extinct?

They'd all migrate to India.....

 

[ajlelectronics]

I also disagree that livestock are treated cruelly. There maybe the odd farmer who deserves to have everything removed from them but most are compassionate for their animals, they feed them well and give them a good life whilst they where on the farm.

How do you describe their young being dragged from their mothers, the males to be murdered and the females to be fed on synthetic milk? How do you think that would go down in a maternity hospital?

Hardly comparable to how slaves where treated. Unhappy livestock is simply not a good business plan and in no way benefits the farmer. It's a business and happy healthy animals are the most profitable. So therefore it makes sense to keep them well.

The animals know no other life, like a jar of fleas with the lid removed, they become accustomed to their confines and have no idea what is going to happen to them. Until it is too late.

It's not exactly a bad life and I'm sure if you offered the majority of the population an all inclusive free stay for no work on the condition they took a ride to an unknown destination that they would sign up to it.

They have no choice, they are enslaved.

You can't personify them and you imply your understanding of death on them.

We claim to be the most intelligent creatures on the planet, therefore we have a duty of care towards animals and not use it as an excuse to abuse them. The taking of life for profit just cannot be justified, no matter how your industry tries to make it look like the current meat industry propaganda advert.

We only know what death is as we are taught from a young age. You can't teach animals what death is and they must learn from experience. Therefore they can't learn what death is.

So that makes it acceptable then does it? Children don't know what death is, so does that make infanticide justified? The poor creatures delivered to the death camp up the road know exactly what is going to happen, I have seen it with my own eyes, but that of course is an inconvenient fact for the meat industry and one that they prefer to keep confidential.

I appreciate that this is your livelihood, but I just cannot imagine treating animals like that when there is ANY alternative. Thankfully there is a growing movement to cruelty free living and one day, maybe my dream might be fulfilled. Until then, all I can do is ask folk to think about it.

 

[brightspark]

get a life move on . the op wants a decent belt not a stupid lecture on where it came from

 

[grim_d]

No sentient being is a commodity. That having been said, there was a time when Humans were just that but we evolved into slightly nicer people. Murder is the deliberate taking of life, in cold blood no matter how the meat industry try to sanitise it with fluffy words like "cull".





The difference is that they would also not suffer every day of their short lives. Again, I point you to the appalling treatment of other Humans in the deep south. Better not to be born than to suffer cruelty every day. I have done my research, I know exactly what goes on and I regularly see the death trucks pass by my house on their way to the killing factory. Anyone with any heart whatever has to be moved by that.



I would have a short list too, mostly animal abusers. However as that would bring me down to their level, I prefer to show others the love that I would like them to show the defenceless and try to get them to at least consider if there is an equally good or even better alternative, before plumping for the one that causes such appalling cruelty. I absolutely abhor the activities of the so called "eco warriors" who get labelled "Vegans". They do not speak for me.

They are a commodity by definition of the word, sentient or not. Domestic animals bred by a breeder and sold are also a commodity. (Let's assume good breeders, not horrible ones) humans can also be a commodity, professional football players are a good example

My workshop is (for all intents and purposes) on a livestock farm. I don't see this suffering you speak of. Wish I could be given food, board and healthcare with free reign to do as I please all day every day, I can assure you I suffer far more day to day than any animal on that farm.

Interesting how you criticise the Industries use of "fluffy" words but then go on to use absurd phrases like "death trucks" and "killing factory"

I will wave the flag for sustainable and cruelty free livestock, could things be improved? Absolutely, there's a lot more to that though than farmers, the country as a whole making things impossible for everyone but eating meat is part of humanity, circle of life, predator and prey. Nobody ever gives the rest of the animal kingdom a hard time, and they never kill each other In a humane way.

 

[Sergei Slovenija]

When decent-tasting bioreactor-grown meat and leather comes along, I'll buy it. If the price of these goods will be available. Why not. In the meantime, I'm hoarding boiled tubular bones in the freezer for experiments in pressing bones into a monolithic block, according to an old recipe. Let the ivory roam the savanna alive.

 

[Agrismith]

How do you describe their young being dragged from their mothers, the males to be murdered and the females to be fed on synthetic milk? How do you think that would go down in a maternity hospital?e

They are rarely dragged away that is an exaggeration and emotively manipulative language used to inflict a response They are picked up and calmly carried away whilst the mother is distracted eating. The males are fed well kept healthy with any medication they need aswell as very visits and then killed with the exception of hallal so quickly and painlessly they don't have a chance to know what's going on. They are sometimes fed milk powder (not synthetic which would be chemical based) but mostly fed on cow milk syphoned of from cows with mastitis

mastitis.

The animals know no other life, like a jar of fleas with the lid removed, they become accustomed to their confines and have no idea what is going to happen to them. Until it is too late.

Yeah and it quite a nice life they have better healthcare than most the world and an all you can eat buffet, if you offered humans the same lifestyle they would be queing up

They have no choice, they are enslaved.

You are correct they have no choice but they aren't enslaved as they are not put to work, assuming the cat in your profile picture is yours then you can hold no moral high ground over a farmer during the animals life.

We claim to be the most intelligent creatures on the planet, therefore we have a duty of care towards animals and not use it as an excuse to abuse them. The taking of life for profit just cannot be justified, no matter how your industry tries to make it look like the current meat industry propaganda advert.

Eating them has nothing to with abuse as long as they are well treated when alive and killed quick and painlessly.

So that makes it acceptable then does it? Children don't know what death is, so does that make infanticide justified? The poor creatures delivered to the death camp up the road know exactly what is going to happen, I have seen it with my own eyes, but that of course is an inconvenient fact for the meat industry and one that they prefer to keep confidential.

Nothing to with acceptable. Entirely to do with facts. My 2 year old is not afraid of death that is a fact he is afraid of falling backwards off the sofa as he has experienced the outcome. The animals going up the road have no idea what is coming you are implying your own knowledge on them. They can have instinctual fear like we do of snakes and spiders but due to the way evolution works they cannot develop a fear of death. Regardless of your beliefs on meat consumption you simply cannot believe that they understand the concept of death as to teach them so you would have to kill them.

I appreciate that this is your livelihood, but I just cannot imagine treating animals like that when there is ANY alternative. Thankfully there is a growing movement to cruelty free living and one day, maybe my dream might be fulfilled. Until then, all I can do is ask folk to think about it.

You are implying again that all farmers farm workers and animal agriculture related works are cruel and treat animals badly. Which simply is not true. If you are as well educated and versed in what goes on on farms you will know that many a farmer has shed far more a tear over their livestock than you. You are passing judgement from a remote viewpoint without an unbiased knowledge base. This is proven by your need to use emotive words to get your point across.
I hope to have conveyed my point in a purely logical fashion however I am aware that whilst you consider it acceptable to ask others to see things from your point of view you obviously have a great problem with me doing the same.

 

[DAPPH]

Any recommendations, where to get a proper, leather belt, with a good strong buckle, not cheap cast metal.
Usually snap centre pin out .Made a new one, out of a 6mm dia. Split pin. It lasted for years. But the rest of the buckle gave up the ghost. Bought a new belt, but quality is rubbish.

Have lost 2 stone, on fasting diet, so need a smaller one anyway.

A lovely lady on this site has made me two bespoke thick quality leather belts one brown & one black for not a too great a sum.

I got her to make them to the fattest I've ever been ( 47 inch waist ) then put ten holes an inch apart in them .
my weight used to be 18 stone three over three stone & now I've only got three more holes to go till I hit the target .
I asked for the thick belts so I can use them like a clowns trouser hoop to enable me to get my trousers on ( I have spinal problems and a disabled left arms ) She gave me two really strong brass gunslingers gun belt buckles .

 

[northwest]

The old big boned excuse.

My chest slipped, what can I say?

we evolved into slightly nicer people.

That is a matter of opinion.

Back to the subject in hand, personally I find Dunhill belts the best though I wouldn't wear one on my "work" trousers, Albert Thurston braces are my answer to the falling trouser problem nowadays.

 

[DAPPH]

Had to stop wearing braces as the area around my L4/5 surgery site gets so tender and irritated by them , Did find that an inch wide plaited / knitted elastic belt given to me by my son in law helps as it has no latch holes and always grips gently holding the waist band in place , it's also easily adjustable for when wearing thick thermal shirts and different trousers .

 

[brightspark]

get some tommy walsh braces would you dare