Dog poison antifreeze

[PhillipM]

Tetrasol used to be ASDA's supplier, and if I'm looking at the right datasheet there's a small trace amount of Butyl Glycol too but it's tiny amounts:

https://www.tetrosylexpress.com/userfiles/images/files/pdf/TETWCE002.pdf

But even on an MSDS - what's toxic for dogs and cats isn't necessarily the same for us so might not be listed anyway, same as with chocolate, grapes, etc.

 

[Ross365]

No-one has said to me "We'll look into it" "That isn't right" "We'll investigate" "The data sheet for ASD706 here" ...etc...etc....

Might the RSPCA take an interest?

 

[prepman]

I've finally got trading standards involved. They told me that they can't aceess the UFI information on the product and will have to ask Asda for a data sheet. It's almost sinister that they can legally hide potentially hazardous substances. So waiting for TS and any more from my MP.

 

[prepman]

Can't say any more....All I want to know. So I don't have to look elsewhere for poisoning cause....from TS...requesting email of details...

> Once received I will check the labelling of the item for conformity, and will also check with Asda’s Primary Authority Trading Standards (which can take up to two weeks for them to respond) the
> safety data sheet for the item.
>
> As soon as I receive all information confirming one way or the other that the item is fully compliant with the relevant regulations, I will be in touch.
>

 

[prepman]

Got the data sheet thanks to my MP. Can't really make out if it would be fatal to a dog. It's smells like fruit juice to me, but not tried it for taste....

 

[Ross365]

Looking at the MSDS, and having spent my professional working life working with hazardous chemicals, I'd just make the following comments.

The SDS says that the wash is isopropyl alcohol (IPA) with 5% ethanol and that is very much what you'd expect any reasonable wash to use, and by virtually any standards, those are relatively safe chemicals, though certainly hazardous if ingested in quantity. For use as a screen wash/antifreeze, I don't think you could find anything significantly less hazardous.

I once helped a friend de-ice a small aircraft and we just sprayed a couple of gallons of IPA over it and that was while it was in an airport, and we had no breathing equipment or gloves or any PPE.

If drinking the wash was the cause of the dog's demise, I think you'd have to think it likely that a significant quantity must have been ingested; you'd need a vet to say how much. I cannot say for sure, but I wouldn't have thought that the smell or the taste of IPA would have appealed to a dog. In contrast, glycols have less smell and apparently taste sweet; cats find them agreeable, but glycols are not on the SDS.

 

[prepman]

Looking at the MSDS, and having spent my professional working life working with hazardous chemicals, I'd just make the following comments.

The SDS says that the wash is isopropyl alcohol (IPA) with 5% ethanol and that is very much what you'd expect any reasonable wash to use, and by virtually any standards, those are relatively safe chemicals, though certainly hazardous if ingested in quantity. For use as a screen wash/antifreeze, I don't think you could find anything significantly less hazardous.

I once helped a friend de-ice a small aircraft and we just sprayed a couple of gallons of IPA over it and that was while it was in an airport, and we had no breathing equipment or gloves or any PPE.

If drinking the wash was the cause of the dog's demise, I think you'd have to think it likely that a significant quantity must have been ingested; you'd need a vet to say how much. I cannot say for sure, but I wouldn't have thought that the smell or the taste of IPA would have appealed to a dog. In contrast, glycols have less smell and apparently taste sweet; cats find them agreeable, but glycols are not on the SDS.

It's looking less likely that it was the cause.....which is in fact more worrying. Trying to wrack my memory of Sunday prior to his unpleasant death. There is another possibility which I've discovered involving an empty antifreeze container in a shed which had fallen onto the earth floor. No sign of liquid. Not sure if it was empty and I'd kept it as a spare container or what? Keep mulling it over and over.
Daughter keeps suggesting another dog, but I need to wrap this mystery up. Vet doesn't suspect poisoning just heart failure. I've lived with heart failure for 17yrs. My previous dog collapsed with heart failure but continued for another 12months until he got paralysis in his back legs and had to be euthanised at 16yrs old. Dog prior to him was put-down at 17 yrs. All Border Collies.
Replacing a best friend after 9 years isn't easy. Like losing a 2yr toddler (same IQ). Someone commented yesterday that you can even get attached to a goldfish....not a dog owner.
To say I'm taking it hard would be an understatement. Still have pangs about previous dog 9 years ago.

 

[premmington]

It's looking less likely that it was the cause.....which is in fact more worrying. Trying to wrack my memory of Sunday prior to his unpleasant death. There is another possibility which I've discovered involving an empty antifreeze container in a shed which had fallen onto the earth floor. No sign of liquid. Not sure if it was empty and I'd kept it as a spare container or what? Keep mulling it over and over.
Daughter keeps suggesting another dog, but I need to wrap this mystery up. Vet doesn't suspect poisoning just heart failure. I've lived with heart failure for 17yrs. My previous dog collapsed with heart failure but continued for another 12months until he got paralysis in his back legs and had to be euthanised at 16yrs old. Dog prior to him was put-down at 17 yrs. All Border Collies.
Replacing a best friend after 9 years isn't easy. Like losing a 2yr toddler (same IQ). Someone commented yesterday that you can even get attached to a goldfish....not a dog owner.
To say I'm taking it hard would be an understatement. Still have pangs about previous dog 9 years ago.

Loosing a dog is not nice mate.

My last little dog got to 17.5yrs (Molly) - we got another two now - one big one little. They now aged two and three.

But over last Xmas - I found an old digital camera in the house - took the memory card out - put it in a PC and sifted thru photos to see if any were worth saving.

And there they were - photos of Molly playing in the garden - a lot younger - in the paddling pool with kids - jumping up in the air for jets of water from a hose pipe. Brought a tear to my eye - it really hit a nerve.

Yeah... I could see how "you could get attached to a goldfish" - you feed it - clean its water out - buy it a new bigger bowl/tank as it grows - filter thing to keep its water healthy.

I also see why you would want closure on this screenwash matter @prepman

But somethings are just sad mate and best "let go" for your own well being...

(searching thru forum emoji's - there is no emoji on here that covers what I am trying to express with that statement)

 

[MattF]

But somethings are just sad mate and best "let go" for your own well being...

That pretty much sums it up.

 

[Guineafowl]

My offer to help go through the case still stands (see post #77).

 

[prepman]

My offer to help go through the case still stands (see post #77).

Thanks for the offer but I think I'll just let go now.

 

[Guineafowl]

Thanks for the offer but I think I'll just let go now.

Fair enough. For what it’s worth, I was never convinced by the screenwash hypothesis. Being mainly alcohol based, it would have produced fairly obvious toxicity signs, such as vomiting and incoordination. Benji’s case sounds a lot more like acute cardiac decompensation, certainly not your fault, which is the main thing.

Our family collie, long since gone, used to eat the rotten cider apples in the orchard. He would come down staggering and peeing indiscriminately, then go for a long sleep in his kennel! It’s funny how the pain of losing a faithful friend will fade, and be replaced with a smile at the good times.

 

[prepman]

Fair enough. For what it’s worth, I was never convinced by the screenwash hypothesis. Being mainly alcohol based, it would have produced fairly obvious toxicity signs, such as vomiting and incoordination. Benji’s case sounds a lot more like acute cardiac decompensation, certainly not your fault, which is the main thing.

Our family collie, long since gone, used to eat the rotten cider apples in the orchard. He would come down staggering and peeing indiscriminately, then go for a long sleep in his kennel! It’s funny how the pain of losing a faithful friend will fade, and be replaced with a smile at the good times.

If the ingredients were clearly shown then it would have been dismissed early on. Instead of being hidden behind a cryptic UFI.

 

[Ross365]

If the ingredients were clearly shown then it would have been dismissed early on. Instead of being hidden behind a cryptic UFI.

For whatever reason, the makers rarely show complete lists of constituents on products, but almost always, if you Google the product / the safety data sheet (SDS), you will get what you are looking for. It may be that for legal reasons, the info needs to comply with certain formats, and just cannot be done in the container for lack of space.

The situation we have now if far, far better than at any time in the past. But if you are unhappy, complain to those in authority - no one on the forum can change anything.

 

[prepman]

For whatever reason, the makers rarely show complete lists of constituents on products, but almost always, if you Google the product / the safety data sheet (SDS), you will get what you are looking for. It may be that for legal reasons, the info needs to comply with certain formats, and just cannot be done in the container for lack of space.

The situation we have now if far, far better than at any time in the past. But if you are unhappy, complain to those in authority - no one on the forum can change anything.

The safety SDS sheet didn't come up in a search for ASD706 plenty of similar ones with nasties in. Hence the confusion.
The answer came from my MP and Trading standards. I wasn't expecting forum members to resolve it.
I posted it as a warning to others. Turns out not the culprit.
I've had a lot of dealings with nasties after 50 odd years in the chemical industry (ICI) and later oil and gas. But things were clearly marked. That was it in a nutshell.

 

[prepman]

Just as a side line (60s) ...I had a very short extremely short employment (sacked) with Humk(c)o Chemicals in Trafford Park.........doesn't ring a bell? ....If I said Kraft would that?
Made margarine there but plant didn't meet hygiene standards for necessary licence. Hence 'chemicals'
So things aren't always what they appear.

 

[Cobbler]

Just as a side line (60s) ...I had a very short extremely short employment (sacked) with Humk(c)o Chemicals in Trafford Park.........doesn't ring a bell? ....If I said Kraft would that?
Made margarine there but plant didn't meet hygiene standards for necessary licence. Hence 'chemicals'
So things aren't always what they appear.

In the 40‘s my father worked for Napier’s the aero engine company in London, he said the engine oil that came out of the engines on test went straight into the margarine factory nearby. This was stopped when they realised mineral oil was carcinogenic.

 

[slim_boy_fat]

So things aren't always what they appear.

Sadly, very little in life is these days.

 

[Ross365]

In the 40‘s my father worked for Napier’s the aero engine company in London, he said the engine oil that came out of the engines on test went straight into the margarine factory nearby. This was stopped when they realised mineral oil was carcinogenic.

It may have gone to the marg factory, but do you know for a fact it went in to the marge? I suspect more likely it was used to burn to provide heat, whether just for the building of for a process. In the 40's, energy was in very short supply, but I absolutely don't believe that used engine oil got in to food!

 

[prepman]

Ironically I've worked for 2 companies (humco) and another that hydrogenated oils. The first made margarine, Humco (Kraft who now own Cadburys) and the latter fats for lotions and tarmac adhesive. Same hydrogenation process. Heat, high pressure (200 bar- ish), nickel catalyst and hydrogen. They made a few accidental rockets also