Diesel tuning chip box things

[Trevorleach]

how much do they cost? near me a remap is £130

I think you will find there are remaps then there are remaps.

 

[premmington]

65 Mpg I got out of my 2.0 litre passat estate going to Bristol Airport yesterday.
Good enough for me.....

I got a diesel VW 2.0 Passat estate myself - Highline one with a DSG gearbox - nice car but I don't get 65mpg from it.

This will be the last diesel car I own personally.

I have changed wifeys car and all the other little "loaners" I have at my garage to small petrol engines now.

 

[Barking Mat]

I'm going to see if my 2001 V70 D5 will pass its biannual MOT in Octobre, 400 + kkms, still going strong.

 

[knighty]

I think you will find there are remaps then there are remaps.

90% of maps these days are a guy loading on a map that someone else wrote

years ago had vans mapped by a guy who sat and wrote the map... he was really good.... but tbh unless you're after something special it's not worth the bother


£130 guy - it's all he does, had a van setup for it, drives around mapping stuff

 

[knighty]

And so many do, most remaps and chips are bought by the lead foot brigade. I know of many that have gone bang, driven carefully they are ok but not may folk that have these things chipped or remapped do that.
Bob

had a sprinter remapped years ago, iirc it was 89hp stock, it was crap, even empty it would hardly keep up with traffic

guy remapped it and it was better....

asked him to push it a bit harder and he said it would start to drink fuel.... told him it runs on veg oil and I don't care, his eyes lit up

20min later he was done and the van was a rocket, fully loaded, towing a fully loaded trailer it would leave empty 140hp transits for dust :-o


did 100k miles like that with no engine problems

 

[MetalMonkey]

In my experience there is mapping and there is mapping, and then there is a lot of confusion and disinformation in-between.

The crudest approach for diesel tuning is just to crank the fuelling up a bit - some of these "chips" do nothing more than just fool the maf sensor.
Some of these can work after a fashion, but they are often not very efficient.

Remaps vary widely in quality and what they actually consist of - but if done correctly they can be beneficial.

In some cases the only differences between factory models with different engine performances is just the software. In which case a "remap" can just restore the power which has been "detuned" for the poverty spec models.
Other times there may be major internal differences. Third party maps vary considerably in their quality and performance.

ECU's will do live adjustments from sensor feedback, but this is to base values which are essentially lookup tables, and these are usually "safe values" rather than anything particularly optimised.
If you are making significant changes to an engine, it is usually necessary to have a proper remap done on a rolling road to realise the full potential of the engine.

As an example of this, many years ago I built an engine which in stock form generated just under 200bhp, and with the modifications to the internals and breathing pushed out around 240bhp on the stock ECU. However, with a proper remap I was able to take that to just over 310bhp and 320 ft/lb or torque (twenty years ago this was perhaps a lot more impressive than it sounds today, especially through the front wheels).
Putting that map on a stock engine would have resulted in hot-melty disaster. Often you have to take a holistic approach rather than fiddling with one area in isolation.

To answer the original question, yes they can work, and yes they are often snake oil.
I think the best thing to do is try and find an owners club or enthusiasts group for the car/engine you have and see what tried and tested options are available.
Remember to take any claims with a pinch a salt – I reckon the only thing that blokes exaggerated more than power figures, is "appendage" length.

 

[northwest]

I hear what @premmington says about "maps" but I had a Pal who was the Porsche race team engine management guru and he was just magic. He was extremely talented and really knew his stuff.

 

[m_c]

Some 'tuners' just trick you into thinking they've improved things.

Common tricks are to remove the lower gear torque limiting. To improve driveability, modern engines limit torque in lower gears to avoid wheel spinning/losing control under hard acceleration. Removing/increasing the torque produced, gives the impression you have more power, because you can now spin the wheels easier in lower gears.
Then there is simply fiddling with the throttle pedal mapping, so less throttle pedal gives more response. Gives the impression the engine is producing more power, as you don't have the press the accelerator as far.

 

[knighty]

the tuners who don;t really know what they're doing don't do anything at all

the pay for access to maps made by people who do know what they're doing, so they download your map, unload that to the web, then they're given a replacement map they download from the web and then upload that to your car

 

[premmington]

Some 'tuners' just trick you into thinking they've improved things.

Common tricks are to remove the lower gear torque limiting. To improve driveability, modern engines limit torque in lower gears to avoid wheel spinning/losing control under hard acceleration. Removing/increasing the torque produced, gives the impression you have more power, because you can now spin the wheels easier in lower gears.
Then there is simply fiddling with the throttle pedal mapping, so less throttle pedal gives more response. Gives the impression the engine is producing more power, as you don't have the press the accelerator as far.

the tuners who don;t really know what they're doing don't do anything at all

the pay for access to maps made by people who do know what they're doing, so they download your map, unload that to the web, then they're given a replacement map they download from the web and then upload that to your car

There is whole new language - "speak" about this.

"net loaders" = (net nothing).

"chain loaders" = (loading other people maps)

Load/loader being a derogatory term in geeky mapping circles.

 

[arther dailey]

so where does the agri tune boxes fit in this list of dier do nothings ? put one on my l200, only set at a lowly 4 x10 , mpg has improved from 28/32 to a much healthier 39 (tank top up measure) and low down torque is improved , I did try a higher setting which just seemed to produce black smoke , but at no4 its definately much nicer to drive.

 

[premmington]

I have seen countless "bricked Ecu's" - plus damage from opening enclosures - a melted piston in a sub year old audi R8. Constant MOT failures on emissions/smoke.

Added to this - the base reloads direct from German servers to get cars back to standard we have had to do - to allow simple diagnostics for simple problems is a near daily job here.

There is bad "map" going about now for BMW auto "slosh" boxes - makes them more responsive (insert: wrecks box in 2000miles).

Then you get the "sales reptiles" dropping faultcodes - errorcodes from "tables" to sell cars with faults. Plus the now declining "deleting" game - for EGR's/DPF's.

-----------

I reckon I have earned more money reversing Maps - than the people got on the initial inseption of the "bad code".

But years ago - the same was said for aftermarket theft alarms! What a money spinner that was cutting out poorly fitted alarm/imo' system.

The whole "industry of aspiration" is just a money spinner.

Yeah there is a "few" good mappers about - but not many!

Plus I am a "repairer" - I never see cars that have not gone wrong - I don't see the good maps - the good 30.000miles - the happy customers!

 

[Fastdruid]

Can only image they spoof canbus transmissions.

I'd rather get it done professionally and have a place to return when it all goes tits up.

Personally I think the manufacturers probably know best

Manufacturers have to consider emissions, reliability, warranty, noise, drivability and efficiency.

Remappers don't have to care about any of that and the plug in boxes (the ones that aren't just a scam, consisting of just a box with flashy lights) are worse still.

 

[Fastdruid]

Then there is simply fiddling with the throttle pedal mapping, so less throttle pedal gives more response. Gives the impression the engine is producing more power, as you don't have the press the accelerator as far.

To be fair that is a common issue with manufacturer maps (and for that matter brakes too). Plenty I've driven where 1/2 throttle feels meaty and if it increased linearly then it would be really fast but there is sod all up top. Particularly a diesel issue I've found too.

Most annoying one we've owned was the RX-8, 3/4 throttle felt really good but there was maybe 5% more torque in the last 25% of throttle. Put your foot to the floor from 3/4 to full and go from thinking "this is good" to "is this it?"

 

[Morrisman]

Any modern common rail turbo diesel vehicle I've driven in the last ten years gos plenty fast enough for me.

Last thing I'd do is try to squeeze more power out of it at the risk of compromising its reliability.

My Mondeo 1.6 turbo diesel has a huge 'hole' in the power delivery. It has enough torque to pull away in 1st gear without even using the throttle, but then from about 1100 rpm to 1900 it is a total slug. I assume the turbo starts giving positive boost at 1900, but it seems almost too much like the fuelling switches over and away it goes.

It's quite brisk, when it does get going, but then it's all over by about 2500rpm, and redline is 4500.

I did once think a remap might help, a few years back, but never got around to it. 54mpg and reliable as hell, I'll leave it alone I think.

 

[Fastdruid]

It has enough torque to pull away in 1st gear without even using the throttle,

That's the anti-stall. I'm told (by a friend who is a Ford Diesel Calibration engineer) that it's almost impossible to stall a modern diesel as long as you *don't* use the throttle.

but then from about 1100 rpm to 1900 it is a total slug.

My most stalled ever car (including learning to drive) remains the BMW 318d. An utter lack of any meaningful torque between tickover and making boost combined with traction control that killed all revs at any hint of wheelspin made it an utterly hateful experience. While that was the worst it's not unique, I've driven lots of diesels and most have a gulf in between tickover and making any meaningful torque (and with a miniscule powerband too). Jumping back into my 2.5T from suffering a 2.0D (TDCI140) hire car for a couple of weeks was glorious.

 

[premmington]

Manufacturers have to consider emissions, reliability, warranty, noise, drivability and efficiency.

Remappers don't have to care about any of that and the plug in boxes (the ones that aren't just a scam, consisting of just a box with flashy lights) are worse still.

If manufacturers franchises will sell you a set of car mats for £500 a set and a service without an oil change for £300 - software updates to overcome their faulty code from the factory - for £hundreds at a time. They would sell you performance maps - if it was good idea - it would be easy income stream for them - they made the maps.

 

[Fastdruid]

If manufacturers franchises will sell you a set of car mats for £500 and a service without an oil change for £300 - software updates for to overcome their faulty code from the factory - for £hundreds at a time. They would sell you performance maps - if it was good idea - it would be easy income stream for them - they have all the code.

Ford did for a while offer Mountune remaps on the Focus ST with warranty. They don't anymore.

The issue can easily be hidden or happen a long way down the road, for example, if the MTBF for your gearbox is ~150k, a remap may half that. Does that mean the remap is safe if someone put it on at 10k and ran it without issues to 60k?
Was that injector failure 20k later always going to happen or is it because the duty cycle has been increased?

etc etc etc.

A classic one my friend (again, diesel calibration engineer for Ford) said of remaps.

There will be hidden downsides. It is up to you to decide if they matter to you.
Oh, and you will have no idea what they are. Which makes the decision harder.

 

[Morrisman]

That's the anti-stall. I'm told (by a friend who is a Ford Diesel Calibration engineer) that it's almost impossible to stall a modern diesel as long as you *don't* use the throttle.

I thought it was just the governor, opening the throttle as such, common to all diesels?

It's quite useful in this countries never ending traffic, the car will dribble along slowly in either 1st or 2nd gear keeping a steady speed with no throttle input.

 

[premmington]

I thought it was just the governor, opening the throttle as such, common to all diesels?

It's quite useful in this countries never ending traffic, the car will dribble along slowly in either 1st or 2nd gear keeping a steady speed with no throttle input.

Last pumps that had a governor were inline pumps - since then we have had decades of rota diesel pumps and now common rail injection.

Diesels were good when they had inline pumps.

Diesels were good before they treated them like petrol engines - perfomance wise.