New to me - Colchester Triumph

[prepman]

Because of a pretty nasty parting operation and an indication of tapering, I needed to check alignment. I also adjusted the ball bearing feed safety clutch on the feed shaft and changed all oils. Clamped the saddle to test it. OK.
Next was to check alignment.

Did a few tests on the lathe. Clock gauges on the chuck to see if any change.

Slackened the headstock bolts tapped and retightened. Changed on cross axis.

Machined the test bar gripped in chuck and got 0.025mm difference over 200mm. I can live with that.
Then I used the test bar between centres.


Horrendous! The results gave a ridiculous taper, didn't even need to measure it.
Ran the centres together.... Yipes! Thought I'd try a different centre.
More respectable. So lesson learnt.... using a tailstock centre to check tailstock alignment can give false results. The 1st centre is from the ML7 and needed a MT adaptor. I suspect there lies the answer.
Still haven't concluded anything on pre-loading the headstock bearings. Nothing seems condusive. Perhap Gamet cus serv will help, or not?

 

[prepman]

Now for something completely different......
When I checked the Student lathe to find out why the oil point on the leadscrew end bush was blocked. It turned out that the casting core had never been cleaned out. So for 60yrs it wasn't used. Must have been oiled from the ends.
On my Senior Major mill the suds pump belt wouldn't last. Turned out that the pump had never been completed. The relief valve for the positive displacement vane pump had not had all the drillings done and was overpressurising.
So much for 60's QC?

 

[Munkul]

Now for something completely different......
When I checked the Student lathe to find out why the oil point on the leadscrew end bush was blocked. It turned out that the casting core had never been cleaned out. So for 60yrs it wasn't used. Must have been oiled from the ends.
On my Senior Major mill the suds pump belt wouldn't last. Turned out that the pump had never been completed. The relief valve for the positive displacement vane pump had not had all the drillings done and was overpressurising.
So much for 60's QC?

Yup. Anyone who thinks Colchester/Harrison had great build quality is sadly mistaken. The castings and design- well enough... the assembly... barely better than chinese stuff today. Some really good machines out there... and some real friday/Monday machines

 

[prepman]

Yup. Anyone who thinks Colchester/Harrison had great build quality is sadly mistaken. The castings and design- well enough... the assembly... barely better than chinese stuff today. Some really good machines out there... and some real friday/Monday machines

Chinese quality has improved a lot. Made in Japan was the pits in the 60's...and now?

 

[Munkul]

Chinese quality has improved a lot. Made in Japan was the pits in the 60's...and now?

Absolutely, thats what i mean. Current chinese assembly quality varies a lot but on average probably about the same today as Colchesters assembly back then...

 

[prepman]

Absolutely, thats what i mean. Current chinese assembly quality varies a lot but on average probably about the same today as Colchesters assembly back then...

As Sean Lock said " I'm practically Chinese" But didn't we used to be an engineering nation?

 

[Munkul]

As Sean Lock said " I'm practically Chinese" But didn't we used to be an engineering nation?

We still are, if you look around. Just not a manufacturing nation.

 

[prepman]

We still are, if you look around. Just not a manufacturing nation.

'A nation of shopkeepers'

 

[Fastdruid]

Yup. Anyone who thinks Colchester/Harrison had great build quality is sadly mistaken. The castings and design- well enough... the assembly... barely better than chinese stuff today. Some really good machines out there... and some real friday/Monday machines

As I commented on my Harrison Mill thread.

It's a genuine mix of beautiful precision and half arsed bodgery.

Like the Lo-Vo Lite that is mounted on three screws that are drilled through into the gearbox so if you remove it then it leaks oil through them.
Or the two holes for the powerfeed electric power/control cables that are bored at different heights.
Or the wonky drilled holes in the control box.
Or the front control panel that turned out to be a trapezoid and fitting a rectangular panel means it looks "off".

 

[Maker]

I've not noticed anything on my Chipmaster to suggest half assed bodgery. I'll be very surprised if in sixty years people are still selling 7x14" Chinese lathes from "the twenties" and discussing how good they are on forums.

 

[prepman]

I've not noticed anything on my Chipmaster to suggest half assed bodgery. I'll be very surprised if in sixty years people are still selling 7x14" Chinese lathes from "the twenties" and discussing how good they are on forums.

Don't know much about those lathes, but I believe them to be light weight and cheap? I'm overall happy with my Student, but there are few. Duhs! Gearbox isn't the best, noisy, apparently always were? Considering it was an extremely expensive machine? Way outside the budget of most people. Like buying a Rolls Royce and finding the wiper blades the wrong way round?
I can only afford it because it's an antique.......a bit like me when I think of it.
A years salary (apprentice) in 1965 (ah... just like yesterday) and this was earlier.

 

[Hood]

IMO the Chipmaster was the best lathe that Colchester made, the rest are decent enough but nothing to write home about.

 

[prepman]

IMO the Chipmaster was the best lathe that Colchester made, the rest are decent enough but nothing to write home about.

I can well believe that from things I've read. There were various options that Colchester offered so the were differences in models. They were the first lathe mass producer I've read, with collosal sales (relatively), and worldwide distribution, due in part to the Empire.

 

[Munkul]

Well we talk about xyz and king rich stuff these days already and they are Taiwanese...

 

[addjunkie]

Well we talk about xyz and king rich stuff these days already and they are Taiwanese...

But our 600 group stuff not also made outlast somewhere now.

 

[Maker]

Don't know much about those lathes, but I believe them to be light weight and cheap? I'm overall happy with my Student, but there are few. Duhs! Gearbox isn't the best, noisy, apparently always were? Considering it was an extremely expensive machine? Way outside the budget of most people. Like buying a Rolls Royce and finding the wiper blades the wrong way round?
I can only afford it because it's an antique.......a bit like me when I think of it.View attachment 327154
A years salary (apprentice) in 1965 (ah... just like yesterday) and this was earlier.

I'd love to know what my machines cost new, I'd assume the mill (Elliott 181) is probably not far off that, it's a similar size and vintage. All I can find about the Chipmaster is it was "46% more than a similarly-specified but larger "Student" model" but that's not very helpful without knowing what a Student cost.

 

[Fastdruid]

I'd love to know what my machines cost new, I'd assume the mill (Elliott 181) is probably not far off that, it's a similar size and vintage. All I can find about the Chipmaster is it was "46% more than a similarly-specified but larger "Student" model" but that's not very helpful without knowing what a Student cost.

I'm sure there are old catalogs with the prices in. My L5 was £567 & 10s in 1950 so about £20k now adjusting for inflation.

 

[addjunkie]

I'm sure there are old catalogs with the prices in. My L5 was £567 & 10s in 1950 so about £20k now adjusting for inflation.

6 years ago I signed a purchase order for a new M400 harrision. It was 13.5 ex works.

 

[prepman]

I'd love to know what my machines cost new, I'd assume the mill (Elliott 181) is probably not far off that, it's a similar size and vintage. All I can find about the Chipmaster is it was "46% more than a similarly-specified but larger "Student" model" but that's not very helpful without knowing what a Student cost.

Made a request to Colchester for an archive retrieval......you never know.....just maybe?

 

[prepman]

I'm sure there are old catalogs with the prices in. My L5 was £567 & 10s in 1950 so about £20k now adjusting for inflation.

To get an indication of inflation a pint of mild beer in vault was 10d (shilling in best side) = ~4p in '65. How much is it now?
Average tradesman's pay around £650/yr (£13/wk) paid on a Thursday so it wouldn't all be spent in the pub Friday night...what are working men like eh?
BTW I heard 'somewhere' not only have we got the crown stamp back on pint pots, but we're getting our £sd back......it was all worth while after all? 'Light the blue touch paper and retire to a safe distance'