Worst beginner welder on the planet needing advice :/

  1. Pigeon_Droppings2 Member

    Messages:
    2,175
    Location:
    london
    I'm thinking the micra k11 will be similar to the Nissan Figaro I recently restored (1991)

    I think you'll be in for some fun...the Figaro is mostly less than 1mm steel...I think 0.6-0.7mm if I remember correctly. I've not used flux cored wire...but I've got a descent gas mig and it was still a bit of a struggle. What you need is a mig that can weld low amps....dunno how good gasses will be?

    Most of the body welding will be using the stop/start approach...basically a series of tack welds put down with a small pause between each tack...having a copper plate will help too behind the weld but that won't always be possible. Doing welding runs on thin steel will just blow holes.

    The up side is I think if you can get the hang of welding a k11 I reckon you'll be set to weld most things!
     
    Memmeddu likes this.
  2. eddie49 Member

    Swapping polarity so that the torch is negative, for use with fluxcore gasless wire, is not easy on a Cebora 130.
    You can move the positive output from the rectifier to the work return lead ( "Earth" clamp ), and the negative output from the inductor ( choke ) via the Contactor to the torch. That is easy enough, but it's the trigger signal to the control PCB that is the problem. Normally the trigger switch joins the single trigger wire in the torch sheath to the torch feed ( which is positive ), and therefore sends a positive signal to the PCB. After swapping the polarity, the torch feed will be negative, and the control PCB will not work with a negative signal.
    See this thread:
    https://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum...rbo-or-will-it-run-backwards-or-blowup.15027/
     
    Memmeddu likes this.
  3. Sean Another 602 fan

    Messages:
    1,167
    Edinburgh
    Sparky boi, im in Roslin gimme a shout, i can help with some scrap or setting up etc. i gave one of my Sips to friends to learn on but ive another thats languishing in a Garage in Glasgow which i may get back at some point.

    Your not the worst welder by any means....at least you know you have to improve!

    As for the thin stuff ive been welding old Citroens for years yo will struggle gassless ideally get an argon mix as it wets the weld in better. That exhaust I its got aluminium or zinc on it which needs grinding off then wiped then buffed sgain becsuse it always leaves deposits then if you get good penetration the carbon soot on the inside burns an blows through. So youve done well.
     
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  4. Sparkyboi Member

    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    Gorebridge, Midlothian, Scotland

    Yes it's going to be incredible fun :/... but I've bought 5kg of wire, spent a hunner and fifty on welder, mask, consumables etc and also bought chassis black paint and zinc primer to do the entire undercarriage after I'm done welding so significant money investment so I'm in it till it's done... Yeah I'll basically be tack welding it tack to tack sort of thing doing a few over here then a few over there spreading the heat and stopping critical temps from being reached in one area. I bought 5kg of wire for £30 (Static Arc, no idea if it's good or not but it'll do) as last thing I want to worry about is conserving wire. I can do tacks on a steel surface okish, but trying to overlap tack things together I can't do for **** :/ The weld seems to bond to the metal that I'm earthed to but doesn't weld to the bit on top and I'f I Increase the arc time on it it just gets red hot, burns and crumbles.
     
  5. Sparkyboi Member

    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    Gorebridge, Midlothian, Scotland
    Uhhh wow right, I think I'll just keep running electrode positive then, more spatter but meh it's a 17yr old Micra with various shades of silver patched paint :D
     
  6. Sparkyboi Member

    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    Gorebridge, Midlothian, Scotland
    Cheers pal! Yeah the flux core is definitely going to be a massive challenge on metal so thin, I've ordered sheet metal in 0.8mm, perhaps should've gotten 0.6 or .07 instead I'm not sure but it'll do. I've already spent a whack recently and funds are depleted so I'm going to have to make do with gassless just doing tack to tack to tack, will probably take an absolute age to get a continous bead like weld all round with this method but I'm hoping to be done by the next world cup, with some tea breaks in between! The only saving grace is that the Cebora 130 goes down to 30 amps, one of the reasons I chose it, Am I better using low voltage for a higher domed weld on the patches or a high voltage for wide and flat?

    Thank you for your offer of setting up, I'll see how I get on but may well disturb you if I get totally stuck :P... I'm so used to figuring out any car problem myself and carrying out the repair with some self teaching but this is a different ball game, unlike mechanics more of a "crafty feely" type thing.
     
  7. Sparkyboi Member

    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    Gorebridge, Midlothian, Scotland
    Guys, what is the technical name for those cylindrical connectors that have the barbed clip type ends and one end screws into the gun at the metal block and the other has the sleeve liner slotted into it (also one for a gas line) ... I need to buy replacements but cannot for the life of me find them as I don't know what they are called....
     
  8. Popcorn

    Popcorn Member

    Messages:
    279
    Location:
    'ull
    Dinse connectors
     
  9. Sparkyboi Member

    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    Gorebridge, Midlothian, Scotland
    Not sure that's the one. Here's a pic. Saw one for £12 new on Ebay, not paying that!
     
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  10. anto Forum Supporter

    Messages:
    841
    Location:
    Ireland
    If you can manage to get gas could a gazebo to cover the car be an option which would allow you to weld without the wind blowing the gas away?
    Having welded rotten Peugeots and Fords before you need all the help you can get regardless of talent. Even switching from CO2 to an argon mix helped me exponentially!
     
  11. Sparkyboi Member

    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    Gorebridge, Midlothian, Scotland
    Haha I got a massive tub of body filler... plus a grinder and paint makes me the welder I ain't! Lol wrong place to say that huh.

    On a serious note though I really can't justify buying a container of gas that I'm not allowed to keep in the house, don't fancy driving round in the car with it 24/7 considering I'll only use it rarely. Plus I'd need to buy a regulator, gazebo bla bla... I'm a student who works temp jobs as and when I'm not on welders wages mate :/. I have a fair bit of 0.9mm sheet steel out back that I've literally just finished flap wheelin shiny clean and going back out to slice it into "soldiers" (mind when your maw used to give you egg n a cup and soldiers?) and try tack welding them together a pair at a time, until I can create a seam of tacks to a decent degree. I have ordered 5kg of wire and if I end up using all that learning then I'll buy another 5kg spool. If I'm really really struggling in a months time after plenty practice then I'll pay my neighbour to do it, hes a welder by trade... but I'll see how I get on. I guess I could alternatively buy gas and a reg and a gazebo if push came to shove but I've seen lots of folks on youtube manage to do it with gassless and I'm a stubborn dick so I'm not giving up without a fight!

    Does the voltage basically just control the bead profile, anything else?
     
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  12. Sparkyboi Member

    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    Gorebridge, Midlothian, Scotland
    Ok so my 5kg wire arrived today, it's fecking mahoosive and I'm certain without even looking that the reel bore is much bigger than my machines spindle/holder mathingy..... is there an adapter or something I can buy? Also will a cebora 130 spin a heavy reel like that? it weighs a ton :/
     
  13. Sparkyboi Member

    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    Gorebridge, Midlothian, Scotland
    OK... so I'm probably inviting hate and "your ****, don't bother trying to weld" type comments at uploading todays "work" but here goes, you guys might be more constructive in your criticism than some forums. I posted my results to my car forum and was met with a lot of those type comments, it really ****** me off to be honest, how does anyone get good at anything without going through the messy, ugly and poor quality part of the learning curve... on the internet, if your not a pro producing pro work then you've failed at welding (and life) and there's no hope! Sorry rant over, had to get that out :/

    So today I cleaned up a bit 0.8 sheet steel and cut it into "soldiers, y'know just like yer maw used to make you with egg 'n' a cup!
    My plan is to go out every day (rain permitting, may get a tarp or something If I can) over the next week or two or however long it takes me, and practice tacking up the seam to form a "continuous bead".

    So, with my cleaned up and sliced up sheet at the ready, I set the welder to the lowest wire speed (30 amps) and 1/min voltage (not really sure what the best setting for bead profile is to be honest with you) and started trying some tacks. This is the first butt weld I've ever performed in my life, so it's messy, ugly and some parts have holes where it's blown through with too much arc time/heat. The piece is not finished due to the rain, hence why it's not a continuous bead yet.

    Self Assessment/ What I think I did wrong:

    1. Gun angle, my gun angle was often not the 15 degrees (I think?) it should have been and was sometimes more like 45 lol!
    2. Arc time, I was either too long on the trigger, or not long enough, resulting in either lack of pen or blowing through, I'm starting to get a feel for it however and noticed one or two of my tacks looked quite nice for my skill level, although admittedly most look like shite. I'm more often guilty of not enough arc time.
    3. Electrode starting point: Due to struggling with vision inside the helmet and the lack of light from the overcast afternoon sky and also that strange screwed up vision you get immediately after lifting the helmet, not all of my tacks were on the seam as you can see... I resorted to lifting my helmet>place electrode on seam>helmet down>tack... this is far from ideal.
    4. Holes: Much like she said, my attempt to fill the hole failed miserably! It's messy, built up and just... yeah, or should I say NO.


    This is just what I picked up on, I'm probably doing other things wrong

    What I will try and do better:

    1. Better gun angle, I'll try for 15 degrees... or should it be straight on for tacks?
    2. Arc time: I'm going to try using sound of the arc as a guide, I noticed observing and comparing the duration of the arc noise helps.
    3. Electrode starting point/vision: Have ordered a 400w halogen plug in work light, this should greatly aid my vision for both daytime and night time welding.
    4. At the risk of sounding like the cliched dreams of a teenage boy, I want to be able to fill any hole that comes my way. I will have a look on the internet for videos of holes getting filled, though I'll try and avoid my windows getting a virus like last time :/

    So... yeah here you have the incomplete result of the first thing I have ever butt welded together. Feel free to take pity on it :P but go easy on me, when I set my mind to learning something I have the tenacity to not give up no matter what, you won't deter me, however I prefer to be picked up rather than put down :)
    I'm just happy the damn join is holding together, it might not be full pen but upon smacking it with a hammer on the ground it stays together, it's a start!

    I'll update with another picture or so when I have done a full "continuous bead" of tacks, so to speak.

    P.S I realize this isn't exactly learning to weld in the sense of learning how to run good beads, controlling pools etc but for metal this thin that's impractical/impossible and not the focus right now, once I get my car on the road I'll turn to learning more about different sorts of welding.
     
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    Sparkyarc19 likes this.
  14. Sparkyarc19 Member

    Messages:
    125
    Location:
    London england
    fill them holes man don't let anyone of it dishearten you keep practicing
     
  15. barking mat

    barking mat Member

    Messages:
    1,676
    Location:
    Brittany
    More practice mate. Go for a mini puddle then stop. Try a second, two seconds. Stop.
     
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  16. anto Forum Supporter

    Messages:
    841
    Location:
    Ireland
    As a way around the no gas in the house you could get an old co2 extinguisher and use it as your gas bottle? I've done it when I was stuck lol
    I can't see your house mate/ landlord objecting to a fire extinguisher lol

    Probably get one for free and a friendly fire extinguisher filler upper will fill it for pennies. Fire brigade might even fill it a time or two.
     
  17. Sean Another 602 fan

    Messages:
    1,167
    Edinburgh
    Sparky boi...erm no, just no

    wire speed too low, gun too far from the workpiece the weld should wet in, gassless will spatter but there should be distinct areas of fusion.

    when are you planning on another go i can pop over.
     
  18. Sparkyboi Member

    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    Gorebridge, Midlothian, Scotland
    Aaah the wise words of my big brother echo through the years, is that you bro? :)

    Thanks man!
     
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  19. Sparkyboi Member

    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    Gorebridge, Midlothian, Scotland
    She will and it's her house... I have to keep my little Map Gas blowtorch in the boot of my car :/ Sucks but that's the way it is, gas is simply too impractical for my circumstances man as are gazebos etc and money wise I simply can't spend any more cash on this welding projec, It's going to have to be flux core... yes this is **** but it's my first attempt, It'll get better and better.
     
    anto likes this.
  20. Sparkyboi Member

    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    Gorebridge, Midlothian, Scotland
    If wire speed=amps and lowest wire speed= 30 amps and the thin metal requires 30 amps then surely I can't up the wire speed? maybe I'm missing something?
    I'm going back out tomorrow daytime to practice some more... I'll up the wire feed
    Thanks! I'm conscious of burning through but I'll try upping the wire speed till I get a bacon like sizzle. I know I'm screwing this up I'm just in the process of piecing together why and getting a feel for it.
     
    barking mat likes this.
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