What size of supply does this unit need?

  1. 222Parsons New Member

    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    Somerset UK
    I'm sure this us a very basic question... What size supply does a single phase Tec-Arc 311 machine need and what would happen if connected to say a 16Amp supply?

    Anh help much appreciated.
     
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  2. tom2207 Member

    Messages:
    2,503
    Location:
    uk northern ireland
    says 50 amp on the data plate so a 63 single socket to get the best out of it

    But will run on a 32 with reduced out put.

    at 16 id be guessing you would be lifting the trip , maybe at turn on this new stuff does not like low input voltage / amps , you will get errors and black outs at the best ,,, or melt something expensive at worst .
    If you want a horse to work you have to feed it.
     
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  3. willie.macleod

    willie.macleod Member

    Messages:
    324
    Location:
    Western Isles, Scotland
    Needs a 32A supply - if you connect it to a 16A supply it will work but trip when using it at higher settings.
     
  4. 222Parsons New Member

    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    Somerset UK
    Thanks for the info.
    I'm finding it quite sporadic whereby it trips intermittently when I pull the trigger before even getting it to arc. What would cause this?
    It is connected to a 16A supply in my garage which fed from a 40A supply in my house.
     
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  5. tom2207 Member

    Messages:
    2,503
    Location:
    uk northern ireland
    lack of input power ,,, you simply need a bigger supply , something will not like what you are doing to it ,,, and it will get very expensive.
     
  6. daleyd

    daleyd Member

    Messages:
    7,101
    Location:
    Wrexham, North Wales
    As a very rough guide that plate is suggesting 32 amps supply is required for a 230 amp output (50 amps supply for the full output).

    So reasonably speaking you should be able to run it up to ~ 115 amps on a 16 amp supply - in reality it might give a bit more than that as the data plates are probably erring in the cautious side, but it also really depends on your circuit breaker that ultimately feeds it. If it’s a normal type b breaker it will trip fairly quickly in an overcurrent situation (as can happen when you first strike up and the transformer energises). A type c breaker has more resilience to overcurrent so is generally used for things like motors or anything that requires a higher than normal starting surge. You’ll need a sparky to tell you it’s ok to fit one though as the wiring will need to be checked, you can’t just go and fit one without knowing the consequences.
     
  7. daleyd

    daleyd Member

    Messages:
    7,101
    Location:
    Wrexham, North Wales
    Sorry just seen your pics, looks like you already have c type breaker so disregard the above :thumbup:
     
  8. 222Parsons New Member

    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    Somerset UK
    Much appreciated input. Thankyou.
     
  9. willie.macleod

    willie.macleod Member

    Messages:
    324
    Location:
    Western Isles, Scotland
    Assuming it is the C16 breaker that is tripping - if you have been running it like this for a while and it has tripped lots of times then the breaker itself may be failing and not performing to spec. The inrush current of the welder may be what's tripping it before the arc starts. If you already have a 40A supply to the garage you are likely to be looking good but need a sparky to take a look and sort out the upgrade to a dedicated 32A circuit which may not be too painful on the pocket. That's a huge welder to be running in a garage, I'm assuming you aren't wanting to use it to its full capacity in a domestic setting so worth telling the sparky about the planned usage for diversity planning purposes.
     
  10. 222Parsons New Member

    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    Somerset UK
    Morning, I should have given more detail, when I used it yesterday it ran fine for a few tack welds, then it tripped the garage RCB, itvgas never tipped the C16 MCB. Sometimes it trips the 80A RCB in the house, not the 40A MCB which feeds the garage...

    When I mention garage it is more of a workshop 12x6m and I will be getting a dedicated 100A supply into it at some stage but not just yet.
     
  11. hotponyshoes Member

    Messages:
    3,379
    Location:
    Somerset. Uk
    I have run a few big welders like this from a single phase supply and, in my experience , the reality is you just need a bigger supply.
    I have also seen mine trip the 80a house breaker when the shed breaker is only 40a. Not sure if this is due to other loads being on in the house, voltage drop in the cable running to the shed or what.

    I have tried replacing breakers to no avail. Same thing as you, some days I could run for an hour with no problems, other days I could not even turn it on without it tripping out.
    I do wonder if the mains voltage has anything to do with it? If all the mothers near you are running washing machines on a Saturday morning does the local grid voltage drop a bit causing your welder to try and pull more amps?

    I did also account for the fact that all of the machines I tried were old and it could be possible that some of the internal components were causing issues of sole sort. Having said that, I sold all of them and they were all taken to the workshop and run from a 63a socket to test before sale and all worked perfectly.
     
  12. daleyd

    daleyd Member

    Messages:
    7,101
    Location:
    Wrexham, North Wales
    I think if it’s tripping the rcd then it’s not specifically tripping because it’s too big (though that may be factor) - an rcd is a protection device that monitors current and trips if it detects any current flowing to earth (that’s a very simplistic explanation) - so a bigger breaker may not be the answer?
     
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  13. hotponyshoes Member

    Messages:
    3,379
    Location:
    Somerset. Uk
    I did wonder if mine were doing this.
    They were all older machines and I had no problems running newer inverter machines on higher output settings. They did all work fine on a bigger socket though and I would think the fault detection on that supply would be just as sensitive even if the breaker was rated higher?
     
    daleyd likes this.
  14. daleyd

    daleyd Member

    Messages:
    7,101
    Location:
    Wrexham, North Wales
    No idea, to my mind if it’s the rcd tripping then a bigger breaker might not help but maybe it would :dontknow:
     
  15. hotponyshoes Member

    Messages:
    3,379
    Location:
    Somerset. Uk
    I'm not sure if it's the breaker itself.
    I kind of thought that maybe if the welders were not getting enough power they might develop some sort of temporary fault condition or create some sort of internal power leakage?
    I don't really have a clue but I would get problems with all of them running via a 32a socket, any of them would trip any of the 2 breakers or 2 rcds at random. I dont know how well the power supply to the shed was set up and I'm not even sure if k should have had a 2nd rcd fitted in that box?
    All of the machines were 300a+ though. All ran fine on a bigger socket in more than one other location.
     
    daleyd likes this.
  16. willie.macleod

    willie.macleod Member

    Messages:
    324
    Location:
    Western Isles, Scotland
    Get the welder checked out, if the RCD is tripping then that's a fault somewhere. Also it isn't a great idea to have two RCDs on the same circuit like you have, always tends to be the furthest away one that will trip. Try giving the welder a good clean inside as well, could be dirt giving you a bit of earth leakage.
     
  17. 222Parsons New Member

    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    Somerset UK
    Hi, it's been freshly tested and all ok so am inclined to think it's a supply issue..
     
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  18. brightspark

    brightspark Member

    Messages:
    31,703
    Location:
    yarm stockton on tees
    what is tripping the 30 ma rcd on one or both or is it the mcb-s
     
  19. Neilj Member

    Messages:
    139
    Location:
    Cheshire, UK
    If it's one of the RCD's tripping (the unit with the Test button, either the house one or the garage one), then it's not a supply issue it's an earth leakage problem. In simple terms the RCD is detecting that all the current running out down the live wire is not returning back on the neutral wire, i.e. some current is leaking elsewhere, to earth somewhere. Although your welder has a fresh test cert I would be a bit suspicious, has anything got wet recently? Could also be metal / grinding dust inside causing tracking to earth, whip the covers off and have a look (unplug first of course!)
     
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  20. brightspark

    brightspark Member

    Messages:
    31,703
    Location:
    yarm stockton on tees
    it was only tested 11 days ago. a full; insulation test on the fixed wiring in the house db and garage db is required as the welders been tested but nothing else has
     
    tom2207 likes this.
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