welder cuts out when generator revved

[s410man]

got a honda generator and a brand new 140 amp jasic arc inverter

problem is whenever i rev the generator anything over about quarter throttle the welder shuts down and wont restart for about 20 seconds

running the generator on tickover allows me to weld but i cant get no power as if i turn the welder up it just kills the genny

i know the welder works perfectly off a mains supply

it is a generator friendly welder

im guessing its some sort of overcurrent cutout???????

 

[chevy2]

What ouput is the genny in KVA?
probably a simple case of not big enough to run the welder,

i often use hire gennys for jobs in parks etc, a 3/4KVA genny will "barely" give me about 50-60amps stick welding output.

 

[s410man]

genny is about 7 kve from memory

should have made it clearer the welder cuts out as soon as genny revved before i even start welding

plug the welder in on tickover the welder is on but as soon as the genny is revved the welder cuts out

 

[AdrianH]

I can only guess at this, but I have to ask if the Generator has automatic voltage control, and what type of generator is it. As far as I can tell from searching a while ago there are two types out there. One is quite modern in design and can have an engine that can increase the revs of the engine to suit the load. they basically generate a variable voltage that is then converted to a 50Hz sin wave similar to the VFD systems, the more load they need to supply the more output the engine has to supply but because of the inverter technology engine speed is not an issue.

The older type of engine is basically a single speed device designed to run at say 3,000 rpm to provide 50 Hz output at 240 Volts. (could be 1,500 depends on the alternator being 2 pole of 4 pole type devices). As more load is placed on the output the motor detects the drop in revs and increases throttle opening to bring the speed back up again.

Now to what I am trying to get at. If one of the older style increasing the revs of the generator could simply increase the output voltage and mains frequency, the welder could be detecting this and shutting it self down to keep it's circuits from frying.

Also for example. My RTECH is 160 amps max output and says the mains input is up to 13 Amps, so that is 3.12 KVA, but it says if used from a generator must be from a minimum of 5VA output with automatic voltage regulation, it needs the extra 1.8 KVA to deal with the dips and surges of current without killing the generator and upsetting the TIG.


If you generator is not it self increasing the speed or output load it may be a problem with the generator regulation side.

I hope I got all that right?

 

[s410man]

thanks for the reply

so i need a genny with avr

ffs

 

[AdrianH]

I don’t actually know I am guessing what is the model of the genny and we can look at it's specs?

Adrian

 

[s410man]

its a real old honda so i dont think it would have it

 

[brightspark]

it may help if u had a votage meter and an ammeter conected to see what the output was on tick over and full load revved up .otherwise u are just wild guessing

 

[octo0072000]

try running a kettle on the jenny or electric fire some heavy load better still a microwave

 

[wheresmejumper]

Rev the genny,then turn on welder.

 

[Spark plug]

If it and older style generator you have (engine with an alternator on) you will need to run it at full throttle in order to maintain a frequency of 50Hz.

I had a 8kva genset with a yammer Diesel engine some years ago, it had a throttle but this was only so you could let it tick over when not using power to save stoping and starting. Also you could let it warm up before reving it hard.

 

[the snooper]

you cant rev a genny because it alters the frequency and most electronic stuff will spit its dummy instantly and may even die all together, most gennys run at 3000 rpm which creates 50hz and the speed has to stay constant

 

[the snooper]

If it and older style generator you have (engine with an alternator on) you will need to run it at full throttle in order to maintain a frequency of 50Hz.

I had a 8kva genset with a yammer Diesel engine some years ago, it had a throttle but this was only so you could let it tick over when not using power to save stoping and starting. Also you could let it warm up before reving it hard.

it has to maintain 3000 rpm if its a small 2 pole genny run it flat out and it will produce 60hz and then some

 

[Spark plug]

it has to maintain 3000 rpm if its a small 2 pole genny run it flat out and it will produce 60hz and then some

The generator I had, the full throttle position was set to run 50Hz. It had an adjustable stop but once set via the frequency gauge on the front, it ran a constant 50Hz

 

[the snooper]

The generator I had, the full throttle position was set to run 50Hz. It had an adjustable stop but once set via the frequency gauge on the front, it ran a constant 50Hz

if you had it full throttle there was something wrong with it, there should be head room on the throttle so that when you introduce a big load the governor opens the throttle because the engine has slowed due to the load and once back up to 3000rpm the throttle would be adjusted to keep it there

 

[wheresmejumper]

you cant rev a genny because it alters the frequency and most electronic stuff will spit its dummy instantly and may even die all together, most gennys run at 3000 rpm which creates 50hz and the speed has to stay constant

They should be setup to run on fullish throttle

 

[the snooper]

They should be setup to run on fullish throttle

then there is no room for the governor to do its job when its under full load, get a frequency meter connect it to a genny and see just how high th Hz goes when you rev it
a typical Honda gx 160 is limited to 3600 rpm by Honda but run it at 3600 rpm full throttle and you will have 60Hz

 

[wheresmejumper]

Fullish i said.definately not ticking over as said in the first post.unless its a frankenstein stuck together job

 

[the snooper]

Fullish i said.definately not ticking over as said in the first post.unless its a frankenstein stuck together job

wish I had one that would run and produce power on tick over would be cheap to run, stuff the grid

 

[wheresmejumper]

Id say a meter is needed before welding is to commence