Weird non logging limp mode (Freelander 2)

  1. julianf

    julianf Member

    Messages:
    4,719
    Location:
    devon, uk
    I have an early td4 freelander 2 here, which is new to us, but I know the previous owner well.

    The car has an issue that it goes into limp mode. Very occasionally with the previous owners, seemingly easier with us.


    Scenario yesterday -

    Had been driving for about 45 mins (motorway then dual carridge a road)

    Approached a long hill that would often push my TDI golf into limp as I crested the hill (vgt with sticking vanes - overboost error).

    As we started up the hill, I even commented to my partner that this was the very hill that always troubled the golf...

    ...and, sure enough, limp on the Freelander also. But not at the same point at all.

    The vgt overboost would always happen on the golf as I crested the hill. ECU calling for less boost, vanes sticking, overboost error.

    But this was half way up the hill. Power loss.

    Limped to Exeter racecourse, kept the engine running, plugged in the (unregistered) gap ii dongle, and read the errors. Nothing new or that made any sense. Was in a rush and new to the tool, so didn't save the error list, cleared the errors, turned the car off and on again and all was fine.


    Points which interest me -

    No dash lights or messages at all.
    Previous owners said that, somtimes, off and on again would do it, but somtimes it was an AA job (they had no reader to clear the codes themselves)

    So, maybe the lack of dash warning or obvious error on the gap tool were accurate? But then what would do limp and not call an error??

    And how do you fix that kind of issue?
     
  2. hotponyshoes Member

    Messages:
    2,717
    Location:
    Somerset. Uk
    Is it bringing the eml on (ie truly going into limp mode) or is it just dropping down on power?
     
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  3. steve_s Member

    Messages:
    399
    Location:
    UK Derby
    look at the vacuum pipes and nipples had a van do that once was a blocked vacuum nipple in the inlet manifold
     
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  4. julianf

    julianf Member

    Messages:
    4,719
    Location:
    devon, uk
    Bare in mind that I was on a dual carridge way with the family in the car and the panic of a car issue... So my analysis may not be spot on, but...

    Just no power. But not like, say, a fuel issue, where you feel the car is about to stall. More like the accelerator wasn't connected to the engine properly!

    When we got off the road, the engine was idling perfectly. Not dying at all.

    Oh, yes, no lights on the dash at all.
     
  5. Ashley Burton

    Ashley Burton Member

    Messages:
    4,232
    Location:
    Northamptonhire
    Could be a turbo related issue
     
  6. julianf

    julianf Member

    Messages:
    4,719
    Location:
    devon, uk
    Bare in mind my engine knowledge is pretty much limited to the landrover 300tdi...

    Vac pipes?
    Inlet manifold nipples?

    Is this to do with the ECU reading boost?

    My plan is to narrow it down and then drive with live values on the diagnostics tool and be able to watch what is going on. But I don't know where to start, and can only log 8 values at a time.
     
  7. Ashley Burton

    Ashley Burton Member

    Messages:
    4,232
    Location:
    Northamptonhire
    @julianf Check for vacuum leaks, obstructions in intake system, Also sticking actuators
     
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  8. hotponyshoes Member

    Messages:
    2,717
    Location:
    Somerset. Uk
    If you don't get the light then you won't get a fault code.
    Common problems are a missing or blocked vacuum filter or a little lump of carbon holding the egr valve slightly open.
     
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  9. the snooper

    the snooper getting older by the day

    Messages:
    20,505
    Location:
    Hull UK
    Temp sensor, going up hill so pushing it harder, you could do with some more info off previous owner ie , does it do it when cold, warm or hot
     
  10. hotponyshoes Member

    Messages:
    2,717
    Location:
    Somerset. Uk
    I don't think it will be something that is set off by a sensor.
    Over temp, low oil pressure, overboost etc are all monitored by sensors. If the ecu sees any of these reporting out of range or in conflict with other readings outside of the designated maps it will go into limp mode - also bringing the light on and storing fault codes.

    You need to be looking for something that is not monitored, like the leaking/seized vacuum parts mentioned above.
     
  11. 8ob

    8ob Forum Supporter

    Messages:
    5,856
    Location:
    moscow on thames
    When our Freelander has a hissy fit it's always the fuel filter, just saying.

    Bob
     
  12. the snooper

    the snooper getting older by the day

    Messages:
    20,505
    Location:
    Hull UK
    Problem is it's not a regular thing so he needs to find out what conditions bring on the fault, I'd have thought a seized part would cause a regular fault as with an air leak, maybe check fuel pump fuse connection if electric pump aswell, intermittent faults are the worst to find
     
  13. julianf

    julianf Member

    Messages:
    4,719
    Location:
    devon, uk
    The motor was an ex-denonstrator, bought virtually brand new by previous owners.

    They only ever managed to get it to go to limp on their holidays to Cornwall, always whilst driving over Dartmoor.

    But it's not been clear from them if this was in exactly the same place or not (Dartmoor isn't small!)

    Theyve taken the car up to Scotland etc also always without issue, however...

    The person who drove it down from the home counties to Devon managed to get it to limp on the M5. Again, no logged errors and off and on sorted it.

    (same as somtimes, but not always happened for previous owners - again somtimes they would have to call the aa, so, I assume 'proper' limp was activated then)
     
  14. dobbslc

    dobbslc Member

    Messages:
    5,363
    Location:
    Hertfordshire UK
    Does it have a throttle cable or is it fly by wire? Could be the throttle position sensor or wiring from it playing up, the ECU might not know there's a fault as it just thinks you've lifted off the peddle.
    I remember someone here a while ago had a thread that sounds similar but can't remember what the fault was :doh:
    A lot of vehicles drop off power if you trail the brakes while still on the throttle, worth checking the brake light switch and wiring. I don't know how high tech the Freelander is so the above might not be valid. :dontknow:
     
  15. Robotstar5

    Robotstar5 Casanunda Staff Member

    Messages:
    18,137
    Location:
    Birmingham
    I found that out on a Navarra, I had gone through a ford and did my usual trick of driving with the brakes on against the throttle to dry them and the engine revs dropped.
     
  16. keithski122 Member

    Messages:
    1,046
    uk
    Haldon hill, used to get lack of power problems here with mazda vans, normally a blocked fuel filter, start with the basics.
     
  17. voipio Member

    Messages:
    943
    Cambridge, UK
    Check the turbo-to-intake manifold hose for splits or tears. Had exactly the same problem on a Merc Sprinter van. Kept going into limp mode and no power. Restarting the engine usually cleared it for a while. The ECU couldn't make sense of the readings from the sensors, which would be fine under low demand conditions, but when the accelerator pedal was pushed further, the tear would open up and p*ss air out. The hose looked fine, but the tear was out of sight at the back. A few turns of duct tape sorted that one out.
     
  18. julianf

    julianf Member

    Messages:
    4,719
    Location:
    devon, uk
    The car has had the fault through all of the previous owners ownership... First time, it was still under warranty, but, as it was so intermittent (for them) it was never gotten to the bottom of.

    I can't think it's still on the same filter, all these years later. Unless the tank was somehow full of crud from the factory.


    I've had blocked filters on non ecu cars (biofuel gelling in cold weather normally!) and they just want to stall. This really wasnt like that. Would idle fine and ran fine for the rest of the trip also.

    But, sure, simple things first. I just can't really see it being that?
     
  19. chrisg3103

    chrisg3103 Forum Supporter

    If its the 2.2l freelander 2 engine it might be the same fault you had in your golf, in that the vnt mechanism is prone to seizing up.
    Its an electronic actuator and if the mechanism in the turbo gets sticky the gears in the actuator can strip as well, think you can buy replacement gears.

    Can be removed without taking the turbo out, a bit fiddly though. Undertray, intercooler metal pipe off and small hands.
    Once off a few clips pop the top off and can have a look, also get to assess the feel of the arm on the turbo.

    So saying could be something totally different, fault codes would be handy :D
     
  20. johnser

    johnser Member

    Messages:
    2,021
    Location:
    North Cornwall
    Buy a vacuum test pump. Cheap ones are like £12 fon eBay. Then try to find a vaccum map/diagram for the truck and start rulling components out. I chased a mysterious vacuum problem on a caddy for months, changing components at random until I bought one. Narrowed it down to a leaking reservoir in 1/2hr.

    Might be something else of course!
     
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