VFD Recommendations

[MetalMonkey]

One for the VFD gurus. I know there are a few threads already on VFDs, but as technology moves pretty quickly – are there any updates to recommendations for reasonable and affordable VFDs?

I see there are mixed opinions on the huanyang ebay cheapies, but some people have had good success. I’m also looking at some that are available from Inverter Drive Supermarket such as the WEG, Yaskawa and Invertek. Any others brands I should be considering or any I should avoid?

I’d also like to run two machines (identical motors, same model, manufacturer and rating) from one VFD in some form of exclusive interlocked configuration – has anybody done this? I guess I would need some sort of stopped/ready to run signal from the VFD to avoid switching load while under power. Presumably in vector mode the spindle would have to coast to a complete stop before you could switch over?

 

[Anguz]

abb ...i use them at work... very reliable

 

[duncans]

the Chinese ones work a treat if you don't want to spend a fortune 100.00 i think i paid for this one and it works a treat

 

[Kram]

I am happy with my Invertec E3, other than a couple of points. It is severely lacking control inputs. There is no input suitable for an emergency stop, other than cutting mains power, with it configured to fast stop on power loss. This seems to work well, but Id love more inputs! It performs great, and dynamic braking stops instantly.

There were some "good used" optidrives on ebay similar price to chinese cheapies, which I would have got if they were there earlier!

Chinese ones do not have vector, they are plain VxF drives, no idea how much difference it makes.

Suggest buying one that is over rated. Also dont look at power, instead current rating. The power rating is based on 2 pole motors, where a 6 pole uses quite a bit more current, and for most tools Id say 6 pole is better.

 

[timgunn1962]

Assuming you are looking at single-phase input power from a 13A socket, get a 2.2 kW drive, even if the motor you intend to use is smaller. That way the limit is the 13A power supply.

I have had at least 8 of the HuanYang drives off ebay. One was Dead On Arrival. Another died for no immediately obvious reason after several months of working fine: it just wouldn't light up the display or do anything. It had been used at work on a series of jobs where it had been powered by a portable generator. None of the big-name Western-manufactured drives that I had tried would even run from the portable generator. We got things running again by changing the drive to a Schneider Altivar and running it from a suitcase generator with Pure-Sine-Wave output, which obviously cost a lot more. The other HuanYangs all seemed boringly reliable.

If you need a sealed drive, the IP66 Inverteks are pretty much the only realistic option.

Sensorless Vector doesn't seem to offer very much benefit until you get to low speeds. I got hold of several different drives a few years ago, when some machines were being upgraded at work, and did some testing on my old and seriously knackered 9" South Bend lathe. The V/Hz (V/F) drives all worked fine down to 7 or 8 Hz before seeming to become "coggy" and adversely affect the surface finish. The SV drives were all smooth down to 2 Hz or less. The drives tried were: Telemecanique Altivar 8 (SV), Altivar 11(SV), Leroy Somer Digidrive (SV), Siemens G110 (V/Hz), Automation Direct GS2 (V/Hz), HuanYang (V/Hz).

I have used a few other drives since and there still seems to be about the same difference between SV and non-SV drives at low speeds.

I built each of the drives into IP66 panels, each with a control pendant and a 3P +E blue 16A IP67 Commando socket. Changing plugs works pretty well for running different machines, though I've not seen much of the 3P + E blue stuff around lately. I think Gewiss were the cheapest and stopped doing it a few years ago. The control pendant has on and off buttons, a keyed fwd/rev selector (the key is only removable in the Fwd position, so it can be removed when running a machine that should not be reversed) and a speed control pot. The pendant cable is long enough to reach any machine it might need to run.

 

[frank horton]

timgunn
bought a large wood lathe with a 3-4hp x 3phs motor.........
would it be poss to use it's inverter to run a ring main just to power up my lathe and mill plus the w/lathe......biggest is a 3hp motor......
I work alone and only one machine at a time gets used.......
It's just it'd save a lot o money from getting in the Electric board to put in a 3phase mains supply......
TA

 

[Anguz]

I am happy with my Invertec E3, other than a couple of points. It is severely lacking control inputs. There is no input suitable for an emergency stop, other than cutting mains power, with it configured to fast stop on power loss. This seems to work well, but Id love more inputs! It performs great, and dynamic braking stops instantly.

There were some "good used" optidrives on ebay similar price to chinese cheapies, which I would have got if they were there earlier!

Chinese ones do not have vector, they are plain VxF drives, no idea how much difference it makes.

Suggest buying one that is over rated. Also dont look at power, instead current rating. The power rating is based on 2 pole motors, where a 6 pole uses quite a bit more current, and for most tools Id say 6 pole is better.

cutting power for the emergency stop button is the correct way..
its how all ours handle an e stop

 

[eLuSiVeMiTe]

timgunn
bought a large wood lathe with a 3-4hp x 3phs motor.........
would it be poss to use it's inverter to run a ring main just to power up my lathe and mill plus the w/lathe......biggest is a 3hp motor......
I work alone and only one machine at a time gets used.......
It's just it'd save a lot o money from getting in the Electric board to put in a 3phase mains supply......
TA

Rotary converter would be a better option there Frank.

 

[Hopefuldave]

Rotary converter would be a better option there Frank.

Agreed, a VFD is really a single-motor supply and has to be configured to the motor (motor full-load amps, acceleration rates to match motor and machine inertia etc.) and they really don't take well to the load being switched.
A rotary converter's probably simpler than rewiring a machine to VFD (I've done both) and not that expensive (under £200 to build mine with a bit of EvilBay and bargain hunting), plus it can run any 3-phase machine you plug in that's the voltage you've built for (240/415) and within its limit (mine does 415v up to 9 kw, haven't got close yet with both 3HP lathe and 4 HP mill running)

Dave H. (the other one)

 

[Retired]

Hi,

https://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/threads/brazing-tc-tips.100297/#post-1546582

Post #5

I've run my Huanyang 2.2kw VFD for years without the slightest problem other than initially understanding how to wire it. It's very sensitive to "Cross talk" between power and signal cables but I have succeeded in running both my lathes from the one VFD and as the motors are identical I arranged remote controls which took a bit of sorting out with the switching and after lots of cross talk between the power and signal cables can now run one lathe at a time which is brilliant. I think modern Huanyang VFD's have a speed control on the front? It's so long ago I did this that I've forgotten most of the details; I think I ended up installing a low voltage transformer and relay for the signal but I'd need to check. I'm not an electrician so have to be very careful not to electrocute anyone.

So to answer your question yes it can be done because I've done it and I'm sure with suitable switching a number of machines can be run from one VFD as long as all the motors have the same parameters. I fully agree with timgunn1962 in recommending buying a 2.2kw VFD; these run smaller motors too.

I'm retired but don't have enough hours in a day; I started this post ages ago but a friend then phoned and between us hope to get involved with induction heating so I'm now full on with another interesting project. Life is good.

Kind regards, Colin.

 

[fizzy]

I have an altivar drive - been brilliant - they are quite expensive but I had a real bargain on Ebay. Sold as used but was still in the box never been used. I think I paid £60

 

[Hopefuldave]

I have an altivar drive - been brilliant - they are quite expensive but I had a real bargain on Ebay. Sold as used but was still in the box never been used. I think I paid £60

ABB for me, the ACS300 series are really high quality, almost unburstable despite their age - I have a couple of them for stuff that needs fine speed control (lathe, impending belt sander). They're NOT cheap, but both cost me well below £100 secondhand.
As above, I have a rotary converter too, for plug-and-play.

Dave H. (the other one)

 

[daleyd]

Pretty much any of the industrial makes are worth having, Schneider (previous Telemecanique), Siemens, Hitachi, Mitsubishi are all good. Newer Mitsubishi are worth a look if you can pick one up cheap enough as you can program them via software and they use usb so don’t need a special cable. (A cheap usb - serial adaptor will work for most of the others) - note this isn't necessary I just find it easier to go through the menus with a laptop, there can be hundreds of paramaters...for home use you will probably only need to adjust a few to get it to work but I use drives in work where I need this facility so I tend to value this above anything else!! Siemens used to be made in the UK (Congleton), not so sure if they still are..

Never used any of the chinese ones, so cant comment but plenty of people have used them with success. If you can get your head around the poor documentation they may be worth a look.

 

[eLuSiVeMiTe]

Never used any of the chinese ones, so cant comment but plenty of people have used them with success. If you can get your head around the poor documentation they may be worth a look.

Have a Siemens on the lathe and a Chinese jobby on the scroll saw.
Documents were fine and setup was a doddle
Can't vouch for longevity as barely used it.

 

[JonE]

just find it easier to go through the menus with a laptop

Out of interest, is the software readily available? I remember having a quick look into homebrew comms cable wiring when I got a Mitsubishi VFD (D720S), but I couldn't find any good options for the s/w?

 

[decca]

I run a Cheap Chinese VFD on my boxford. No problems in two years but as said the setup and destructions take a bit work. YouTube helped.

 

[duncans]

Hi,

https://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/threads/brazing-tc-tips.100297/#post-1546582

Post #5

I've run my Huanyang 2.2kw VFD for years without the slightest problem other than initially understanding how to wire it. It's very sensitive to "Cross talk" between power and signal cables but I have succeeded in running both my lathes from the one VFD and as the motors are identical I arranged remote controls which took a bit of sorting out with the switching and after lots of cross talk between the power and signal cables can now run one lathe at a time which is brilliant. I think modern Huanyang VFD's have a speed control on the front? It's so long ago I did this that I've forgotten most of the details; I think I ended up installing a low voltage transformer and relay for the signal but I'd need to check. I'm not an electrician so have to be very careful not to electrocute anyone.

So to answer your question yes it can be done because I've done it and I'm sure with suitable switching a number of machines can be run from one VFD as long as all the motors have the same parameters. I fully agree with timgunn1962 in recommending buying a 2.2kw VFD; these run smaller motors too.

I'm retired but don't have enough hours in a day; I started this post ages ago but a friend then phoned and between us hope to get involved with induction heating so I'm now full on with another interesting project. Life is good.

Kind regards, Colin.

same one as ive got that mate i think they are good

 

[duncans]

I thought I would mention I purchased the optidrive 1st of all but I couldn't get the perimeters set properly and the company were no help so I sent it back and i purchased the Huanyang 2.2kw VFD at a third of the price and it was so easy to sort the perimeters out and sorta on/off switch I put on the startrite 275 machine but you need to put it in a box sif its a dusty environment

 

[daleyd]

Out of interest, is the software readily available? I remember having a quick look into homebrew comms cable wiring when I got a Mitsubishi VFD (D720S), but I couldn't find any good options for the s/w?

You need to sign up to Mitsibushi website but after that it's a free download - I use the 700 series and its SW called FR configurator. The website is a bit tricky to find your way around, You won't get to the download area without creating an account though.

 

[daleyd]

Have a Siemens on the lathe and a Chinese jobby on the scroll saw.
Documents were fine and setup was a doddle
Can't vouch for longevity as barely used it.

Having had a few Chiglish manuals (Not on VFD's though...) I know how annoying they can be. I've heard a few tales about them being badly worded and difficult to fathom but I guess it depends which one you get.