VFD inputs

[Hood]

Couldn't sleep, bleeding VFDs
The Schneider drive looks good, seem to have managed to set all relevant parameters in the software and just looked at the serial connection, seems it is the same as my Lexium drives so if I am seeing it right I won't have to go hunting for the adapters, well that is assuming it will fit in the space available and that they go for the Schneider if it does. Over double the price of the Delta and just under double of the Optidrive so we will see.

Anyway Lexium drives connection.

And Altivar 320

 

[Brad93]

Aye, Jog Fwd would do but also need Jog Rev and trying to find a VFD that does that, most seem just to have a Jog option.

Parker AC 10 can work on pulse inputs

 

[Hood]

Parker AC 10 can work on pulse inputs

Aye, most do but not wanting to add complication.

 

[Hood]

@daleyd
Just to confirm, with the ATV320 if I put in 2 wire mode, Hoist mode and set two momentary buttons to inputs 1 and 2 it will do as I am wanting?
Also I think I need to set the type of 2 wire control to Level.
Am I seeing things right?

 

[daleyd]

If your not using a mechanical brake the hoist mode might not be needed (this is usually for the brake logic to ensure it builds up torque before brake release, and vice versa when stopping) but yeah that should work.

Level or transition refers to what signal it sees to go from stop to run - transition will prevent the drive from starting if powered up with the run switch made for example (ie it has to see the switch between logic 0 and 1 to run).

 

[Hood]

Thanks, I can't see a way to get the other inputs set as what I want unless I have it in Hoist. I am sure there must be an option somewhere so I can figure them manually but not found it yet.

Ah ok, I was thinking for some reason that transition meant you have to double press, goes from 0>1 and it starts, press again 1>0 and it stops but sounds like it is not.

Manuals are a bit of a pin, instead of everything being contained in one manual there are quite a few different ones.

Will be heading up shortly to take measurements so we will see.

 

[Hood]

One thing that is an advantage with the Schneider is I can set the input logic. If this gets working I am probably fitting a wireless remote control and it outputs voltage on the commands so I was going to have to use two relays. With being able to put into Source mode it will allow me to use an external power source and input 24v for the signals.
The Source and Sink on these drives seems opposite to what I expect but I remember the Lexium drives were the same. I think of a sinking input as taking power in and connecting it to zero but they are the opposite, they call that a sourcing input.

 

[daleyd]

Yeah you can configure the inputs as you want, the hoist macro just is a preconfigured version to make set up quicker. But I don't know if it expects the brake to be fitted when this is used (possibly not I'm only guessing, I'll have a proper look tomorrow) - I did something with a Siemens drive a while back and because I had it set for hoist it wouldn't work on a normal non braked motor, it faulted as it couldn't build torque before releasing.

 

[Hood]

Ok, heading up to look in a bit as I have already had two text messages and a phone call asking what the progress is as they are needing to order something today
With a bit of luck I can get the Chinese one working but that will just be short term as I don't trust it.


Any idea how you configure the inputs manually in the software? Just seems to be giving me preset options dependant on the mode I choose.

 

[daleyd]

you just find the parameter you want (ie run fwd, they will have a 3 letter code assigned to them) and assign to an input eg LI1 - I’ll have a look either a bit later when I get back home or tomorrow and get some screen shots.

 

[Hood]

Just back, sadly there is no way to fit the Schneider in the box even though it is narrow as the depth and height mean i will interfere with the isolator switch and that can't be moved.

The Optidrive will be the best fit I think.
Weird thing is I have the Chinese one working, it was working when I tried it today when on Run mode but I have changed it to Jog and it is still working. Only thing that I can't seem to get to work properly is the deceleration, I initially set to 1 second and it was ok but wanted to speed it up so tried 0.5 seconds and no change, tried 0.2 seconds and no change, should have tried zero but didn't. Will look at the parameters again tonight and see if there is anything else I have missed but if I am honest I have no faith in it so a better branded one will be on its way, sadly not the Schneider

 

[daleyd]

Just back, sadly there is no way to fit the Schneider in the box even though it is narrow as the depth and height mean i will interfere with the isolator switch and that can't be moved.

The Optidrive will be the best fit I think.
Weird thing is I have the Chinese one working, it was working when I tried it today when on Run mode but I have changed it to Jog and it is still working. Only thing that I can't seem to get to work properly is the deceleration, I initially set to 1 second and it was ok but wanted to speed it up so tried 0.5 seconds and no change, tried 0.2 seconds and no change, should have tried zero but didn't. Will look at the parameters again tonight and see if there is anything else I have missed but if I am honest I have no faith in it so a better branded one will be on its way, sadly not the Schneider

You can get the Schneider drive in a wider form factor, a more normal shape - if that’s a better fit. The book type are for narrow fitting in cabinets really.

I wonder if the deceleration is due to an overcurrent on slowing down?? the drive may be sensing it’s going into an overload condition and will extend the ramp down to try and prevent it - used to see it quite a bit on big fans where you would get an overbraking fault if you had it set too aggressive.

 

[Hood]

I will have a look at the other ones and see as I would really like the option of changing the Inputs to what they call sourcing as it will make integrating the remote control much cleaner.
Regarding the Decel on the current drive, not sure but it doesn't trip so it may do it automatically.

One other thing, I think there may be a brake on the motor as you hear a clunk when it starts and stops, if there is it must be controlled via the motors wiring as there are no other wires going there.
I am only familiar with brakes on servo motors and they usually work via the drive so require separate wiring but maybe braked induction motors work differently.

Good thing is they are delighted with it at the moment, much more user friendly than it was before, whether it will last I don't know but now that they have seen it working they are happy to get another VFD if required and also do the same to the second landing davit they have.

 

[daleyd]

For hoists they are usually (though not always) an electromagnetic brake on the fan end. If running through a Vfd then this is usually controlled through the drive relay output, the drive builds up torque then the brake comes off after a short (adjustable) delay to stop the load falling.

If it’s fed from the motor terminals then take care if you stick a vfd on, the brakes usually work from a set voltage and if you have a ramp up/down set then it might behave a bit erratic

 

[Hood]

It seems to work fine at the moment, as soon as the up or down button is pressed you hear the clunk, even when it was on the default 20 second ramp.

I will look into it however.

 

[daleyd]

It may be entirely different of course and I could be talking tripe that’s the type I’ve seen but there’s probably loads of others

 

[mtt.tr]

My cfw300 from weg you just set the Di'n' to forward and Di'n' to reverse.

They also have a stop command in which one pulse will start the ramp down


Can also be sinking or sourcing inputs

 

[Hood]

My cfw300 from weg you just set the Di'n' to forward and Di'n' to reverse.

They also have a stop command in which one pulse will start the ramp down


Can also be sinking or sourcing inputs

It is slightly deeper than I would like but I think if I shifted the position of the 24v psu and isolator switch it would fit in so may well be worth looking at.

I looked for other Schneiders but all look too big

The Optidrive is no longer an option as it only has 3 digital inputs and I ideally need 4, also none of them can be configured as a reset and the only way to do that is press the reset button on the VFD itself. That is not much use as it is in an interlocked cabinet so simply opening the cabinet kills the power to the VFD so you would just be as well turning off the isolator and waiting 10 seconds then putting it back on.

So last on the list was the Delta, it would need the PSU moved slightly but it has plenty of inputs, it can be configured for sinking or sourcing and reset can be set to an input.

The WEG does look interesting, it seems to tick all the boxes but I will have to go through the parameters to make sure one of the inputs can be set to Reset.

 

[Hood]

Definitely a contender, seems to do all I need.

 

[Hood]

Oh and regarding the motor, I got a pic today and it is a braked motor. Braking is controlled on the motor itself and tech bumf says they are designed for use with inverters so all should be fine