Trying to Learn Welding to Restore BMW E30 Cabriolet. Having gas issues.

[HughF]

Seriously, put your hand in your pocket for mixed gas on the boc hobyweld deal... you will get better performance from that machine

 

[the snooper]

Newer than me...

and me

 

[mike 109444]

If this is a car that needs a lot of welding (from the BMW's i have see on here it will ! ) and you are sure YOU are going to weld it then the gas issue is one not to rush into as there are some very expensive "no rental" deals around that look ok at first BUT you will probable only be able to REFILL from the place you got the bottle from as MOST other gas suppliers won't fill a bottle that is not theirs. So check but the initial deposit (usually comes as a full bottle) AND the cost of refilling. Remember when the gas runs out how quick can you get it filled ? How much if it's a postal/courier service will that cost. Don't rush to get a new reg as you need to make sure you get the correct type to match the thread type and fitting on the bottle.
I use CO2 as cost is good. 1st bottle = £20ish for bottle + £20ish for gas (that was the 1st bottle) there after £20ish for refill. and as I already had another empty bottle (same brand) I then got that filled as though it was my 1st bottle So now I have one bottle in use and a full one to swap out
If you try to have two bottles of the argon mix on the go that's ££££ !
Following the discussion on forum about the fire extinguishers I googled CO2 supplies in Bristol (pi55 poor!) but then started reading up the problems that people using CO2 for there fish tanks have refilling theirs and how much they will pay
If any one want's a £££ business look into that!

 

[Rusty31]

Unless Sealey has licenced the TARDIS technology then as far as welding time goes I don't believe you and I don't believe the Sealey catalogue either.

1kg of liquid co2 converts to 19.3 cubic feet at atmospheric pressure - or 546.5 litres.

At the 'normal' mig flow rate of 10 lpm, that'll be 54.65 minutes of welding time.

To get the 3 hours Sealey advertise, you'll need to run at 3 lpm, which simply doesn't work.

(I've slightly rounded a few numbers there, but in all honesty if you get a real actual hour out of one of those with sufficient shielding you're doing well.)

My hobby mig made by sealey welds fine at 6 lpm but even that's short of the mark. regardless its still a pretty economic way of running

 

[angellonewolf]

i had thiswelder does this actualy go as low as you need amps wise to weld thin steel ?

 

[dan_lboro]

Thank you some very good suggestions. For the minute I am looking between the boc hobbyweld deal and buying a CO2 cylinder. Like you say Mike, I need to check to make sure I can refill the bottle not only at the place I might purchase it from. Angellonewolf, I am on my last disposable bottle of mixed gas today, so after I have glued the cracked regulator I'm going to do a test on some thin sheet. Considering CO2 is abundant in the atmosphere its dam annoying how expensive buying it in a bottle is. Thanks for the help

 

[angellonewolf]

if you look on the fourm there is a info on what gas to use and the differance i remember reading it im sure one of the mods will post a link as well

 

[Burdekin]

Argon/5%CO2 will weld easier and nicer on thin metal.

BOC office isn't handy for me, I also have Tig which I don't use that often and I go periods of no welding so rent free bottles are what I go for. There are threads on the different companies and what they offer.

Definitely don't go for the disposable bottle, very expensive. I think a 9l bottle is a good size and not too big personally.

Probably should say I use Adams gas, convenient for me, I give George a call before I go to arrange a time and pick up on my way past, means I can get gas out of working hours which is really handy for me.

 

[mike 109444]

With ref to the fish tank forum people again, some did find they could get hold of "scrap" extinguisher that are past there expire date. With extinguishers they have to be checked annually and for CO2 one of the test is they weigh them and check the general condition AND check the cylinder is still in date If the cylinder has reached the end of life as a fire extinguisher then they deem it scrap. Some of the guys approached extinguisher companies (or service engineers) and were able to get hold of full but expired ones that were going for scrap and following assurances to then that they would not be used as valid extinguisher pick them up for a song! (missed opportunity to get a load myself when a friend of a friend who was a scrap metal man had a truck full of the dam thing!!!)
Any one who does factory/office clear outs must come across them as part of the clear out. Remember you want the CO2 ones as the foam or water ones tend to mess up yer welding

 

[dan_lboro]

I really do like the idea of using fire extinguishers past their "use by date" but getting a regular supply of those might be quite tricky. I've been speaking to a chap at work who does welding on his car at home and he suggested a couple of nationwide rent free places in the uk. Has anyone had anyone had any experience with either of these? Personally I prefer the look of SGS gases since there is a local garage nearby that distribute their cylinders. Also *removed for legal reasons* seems to have a deposit which takes into account depreciation of the bottle over time :-/

http://www.sgsgases.co.uk/mig-tig-welding

https://www.*removed for legal reasons*.co.uk/

 

[Cobbler]

Also check out Adams Gas. If you go on their web site & put in your postcode it will give you local agents to you.

 

[mike 109444]

I really do like the idea of using fire extinguishers past their "use by date" but getting a regular supply of those might be quite tricky. I've been speaking to a chap at work who does welding on his car at home and he suggested a couple of nationwide rent free places in the uk. Has anyone had anyone had any experience with either of these? Personally I prefer the look of SGS gases since there is a local garage nearby that distribute their cylinders. Also *removed for legal reasons* seems to have a deposit which takes into account depreciation of the bottle over time :-/

http://www.sgsgases.co.uk/mig-tig-welding

https://www.*removed for legal reasons*.co.uk/

The chap that runs sgs is a member on forum.
http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/threads/southwest-gas-supplies.28333/ This post might give more info and be aware there is/was a member discount for 1st cylinder. Also be aware the the distributors are free to charge what they like and there has been some members posting quite varied prices !

 

[dan_lboro]

It turns out that Adams gas is the best option for me. Local and reasonably priced, so thanks Cobbler!!!! Should be picking up my cylinder tomorrow :-D. Assuming that the connection on the bottle will be 5/8, please could someone advice whether this is a good regulator that comes with an adaptor to connect directly to my welder?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/161224496777?var=460454504149&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&fromMakeTrack=true

Thanks again

 

[daedalusminos]

I've restored a few cars using the SIP Migmate 120 - my first welder. The fact yours is still rigged for the disposable gas/regulator, I would guess it hasn't had much use (also judging by how clean it is!).

Definitely replace the liner - see if you can get a teflon one if possible, if not a standard (nylon?) one, usually obtainable from motorist discount shops under Maypole brand... and no doubt the Bay. Clean the grease out of the metal swan neck liner whilst you're at it, and trim the liner at the motor feed to minimise wheel-liner gap, ensuring you align the torch so the liner is in direct alignment with the groove in the feed wheel.

Before you replace the liner get new wire, I found 0.6mm wire worked well with a 0.8mm tip.

Replace the earth clamp as previously suggested.

Check the wire spool tensioning mechanism - this is a simple spring pressure knurled bolt, which can loosen resulting in overrun and a birds nest. You might want to adapt this so tension in set with various spacers and the knurled bolt is locked down tight.

Jonathan

 

[Nomad]

A bit late for you, but just so you know...

co2 regulators have a male fitting that goes into the bottle, the others have a male end on the bottle that fits into the regulator.
A co2 regulator will fit a pub c02 bottle, it will also a co2 fire extinguisher.
Weldequip (see the link at the top of this page) sells regulators - I got my co2 reg (and some good advice) from him, suggest you ask what he can offer.
Avoid the disposable bottles, I've found pub co2 & co2 fire extinguishers are fine for my car repairs (using a smaller Clarke wleder)

cheers,
Pete

 

[grahamkendall]

Il be watching your thread closely mate. I am literally in the exact same situation, Just bought an old Merc W123 and looking for gas and trying to get the hang of my welder. Results with gassless were not at all pretty

 

[dan_lboro]

Brilliant to hear that someone else has successfully used a migmate 120 to restore cars :-D. I have had the welder apart last night, cleaned the wire swan neck with white spirit and I've got a new liner (just need to replace it). The welder came with a new roll of 0.6mm wire a few tips (including a 0.8mm I think). Thanks for your advice Johnathon - I think my welder will soon be overhauled and then I can start to learn to weld! Need to learn quick though as summer is soon coming and I need to be displaying at the shows :-D.

Pete, thanks for pointing out the thread fittings, when looking at regulators it is so easy to get caught out by male/ female.

Graham, glad to hear someone else is working on a quality german car. So here is what I did:
-Cleaned all the grease out
-Replaced the liner
-bought a 10litre 5% CO2 and argon bottle (£55 deposit + £36 refill)
-Bought a regulator (£20)
-Bought an adaptor to connect the regulator to the 4mm weld pipe (£6)
- I haven't yet replaced the earth clip with a copper one. Can anyone advise one?

Thanks for all the support.

 

[dan_lboro]

 

[TimeRich__]

just for an 'alternative view', I read a lot on numerous forums about using 'larger' bottled gas, and for me, with the frequency with which I weld, the cheap (expensive) dispo Argon/CO2 bottles at about £15 a shot work out best.

I'm unwaged, so I have to be, by necessity, really cautious with money

 

[ChrisW8]

Hi Dan

I got my replacement earth clip from my local welder supplier.....cost about a fiver.

Also, if you find you get through yer gas quicker than you thought you would, the 20L tanks hold about 4x as much gas as 10L tanks.