TransSteel 2700c

  1. Kalts Member

    Messages:
    44
    Location:
    Estonia
    Hi

    TSt 2700c for sale nearby, a bit over what I would like to spend but the red boxes have reputation for reliability which I am after. Technical specs say that suitable for 0.8-1.6 mm wire. Is it true, no way to use 0.6 ? Wire speed and voltage ranges suggest it is perfectly suitable, why such artificial limitation?
     
  2. Munkul

    Munkul Jack of some trades, Master of none

    Messages:
    3,144
    Location:
    Cumbria
    Because why would you want to?

    It'll have such a smooth arc that it will acheive the low end amperages with 0.8mm wire, that cheaper machines would struggle to match with 0.6 anyway.

    I'm sure if you tried, you could get some 0.6mm rolls for it.

    But out-of-the-box, I can't imagine anyone buying a 270 amp MIG set specifically for 0.6mm wire. So there's no point in Fronius providing rolls for it as standard... maybe as an optional extra.
     
    Nick DV likes this.
  3. Jim Davey

    Jim Davey R H Davey Welding Supplies Ltd

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    5,532
    Location:
    Southampton
    They won’t have bothered putting a synergic line in it I’d bet so you’d have to use it in manual wire feed/volts mode if you wanted to run 0.6mm.
     
    Munkul likes this.
  4. Kalts Member

    Messages:
    44
    Location:
    Estonia
    Just because :)
    Well, I am looking for 3-phase unit with 4R wirefeed and this Fronius is on sale locally.
    Having power reserves is good if that does not impact low-end performance.
    I am not sure about the local distributor, because when I first approached them they
    were happy to quote me a set of 0.6 mm rolls for Tst 2700c. When I asked them to
    explain how is that possible because technical specs say only 0.8-1.6, well the conversation
    ended with suggesting 2200c instead. Not good in my book, particularly for distributor of
    such a high-end machine.
     
  5. Munkul

    Munkul Jack of some trades, Master of none

    Messages:
    3,144
    Location:
    Cumbria
    If it shares a drive roll design with other machines in the range (e.g. 2200) then it's easy to fit rollers to the 2700 for whatever size you want. As Jim points out, it will probably be missing the synergic line, so it will have to be controlled in manual mode.
    Problem is, a lot of welder salesmen aren't actually welders, and they don't really understand what they're selling. But TBF if you want to run 0.6mm then it would make more sense buying a 2200 anyway.... so it sounds like they were doing the right thing...!

    It's a top end machine and they quote a 10 amp minimum... You're not going to run smoothly down to 10 amps even with 0.6mm wire, but 0.8mm will run below 40 amps anyway, and if any machine could run it smoothly, I'm sure the Fronius could.
     
    Mr Roo likes this.
  6. Kalts Member

    Messages:
    44
    Location:
    Estonia
    I called once again and it seems to be misunderstanding in the first call, they were
    quoting 0.8 rolls. They said there are no rolls for 0.6 wire, but suggested I would be
    fine with 0.8. Am I or is it wishful thinking, be it my own or theirs looking to sell? :)
    There seem to be two sides, ones say 0.6 for bodywork, others seem to get by with 0.8 ...
     
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  7. Munkul

    Munkul Jack of some trades, Master of none

    Messages:
    3,144
    Location:
    Cumbria
    I wouldn't touch 0.6mm with a 12 ft pole.

    You'll manage just fine with 0.8. The smoothness of the Fronius inverter will see to it.

    Seriously... the smoothness of the machine makes a huge difference...
     
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  8. HughF

    HughF Member

    Messages:
    5,955
    Location:
    Work: Dorchester, Workshop: Corfe Castle, Wife's place: Frome
    Interesting, I do all my bodywork with 0.6 and always have.
     
  9. Mr Roo

    Mr Roo Member

    Messages:
    430
    Location:
    Edinburgh
    i use 1.0mm for about 90% of the bodywork I do.

    The other 10% is 0.8mm wire.

    i think i’ve used 0.6mm a handful of times over the years: purely because it’s never to hand whereas I have reels and reels of the other sizes (thanks to some unwittingly generous employers..!)
     
  10. Jim Davey

    Jim Davey R H Davey Welding Supplies Ltd

    Messages:
    5,532
    Location:
    Southampton
    On the right set 0.8mm and bodywork is no problem at all.
     
    Nick DV likes this.
  11. Kalts Member

    Messages:
    44
    Location:
    Estonia
    Now, before I go to demo and give the proverbial three drops of blood to devil... how bad is Fronius vendor lock-in?

    I see the MIG torch tips are around 2.4 vs 0.6 €/pc. for Fronius vs. Binzel. There is limited selection of Fronius
    specific torches, I could not find equivalent to 150A Binzel. Would like to hear your Fronius experience.
     
  12. Munkul

    Munkul Jack of some trades, Master of none

    Messages:
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    Location:
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    Once you buy Fronius, you're locked into Fronius everything, unless you stump up the large ones and buy a specific euro torch adapter, lol
     
    Mr Roo likes this.
  13. HughF

    HughF Member

    Messages:
    5,955
    Location:
    Work: Dorchester, Workshop: Corfe Castle, Wife's place: Frome
    Given how nasty mb style torch parts are, I'd be perfectly happy to be locked into a nice torch like the fronius comes with.
     
    Munkul likes this.
  14. Kalts Member

    Messages:
    44
    Location:
    Estonia
    Hmm, I am lost without explanation about the perceived nastiness.
    I have touched only Binzel type torches.
     
  15. Munkul

    Munkul Jack of some trades, Master of none

    Messages:
    3,144
    Location:
    Cumbria
    The common MB15 and MB25 torches by Binzel are very soft... the tip holders, shrouds and retaining springs are weak and badly designed, and they don't like much heat. The MB36 is much better design, but it's very clumsy as it's a large torch, and still not amazing.

    I'm sure that the Fronius torches are better...
     
    tom2207 likes this.
  16. HughF

    HughF Member

    Messages:
    5,955
    Location:
    Work: Dorchester, Workshop: Corfe Castle, Wife's place: Frome
    Fronius, mechafin, Bernard... All have a nice shroud fitting
     
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  17. Kalts Member

    Messages:
    44
    Location:
    Estonia
    I will pass this offer for several reasons.
    Lock-in, less choice, consumables pricing, etc. and the local distributor has been unable to produce spare parts list for 2700c. I have asked three times, last time pointed to the page in the technical manual 42,0426,0107,EN (p.56) quoting "An overview of the available feed rollers can be found in the spare parts lists." Can I have the spare parts list please? Silence or evading talk.
     
  18. Munkul

    Munkul Jack of some trades, Master of none

    Messages:
    3,144
    Location:
    Cumbria
    The best machine in the world is no use if the service and support is no good. Sounds like you probably made the right choice.
     
    Mr Roo likes this.
  19. Jim Davey

    Jim Davey R H Davey Welding Supplies Ltd

    Messages:
    5,532
    Location:
    Southampton
    Most of the torch tips are available via 3rd party suppliers and are much more affordable. Parweld for instance have a massive range of tips to suit other manufacturers torches.
    As far as Binzel quality goes. It’s a good compromise between cost and longevity. Let’s face it, torches in a lot of shops get a really hard time. if you give someone a £300 torch it’s often not going to last any longer than a £75 one if they get damaged but the cost of running and replacing is much higher.
    If you’re not happy with the backup you got from your Fronius agent I’d have a look for an EWM dealer. Sounds like a Picomig 350 pulse or synergic would be just great for you.
    It’s got a euro socket so torch choice is free (the genuine EWM torches are lovely but they come as standard with M7 or M9 tips but adapters are available to convert to more widely and cheaply available tips just don’t expect them to last or work as well) if you don’t want a genuine torch you don’t have to have one.
    As for drive rolls, a huge range are available. And I know the performance in the low temperature dip-transfer program (RootArc) is buttery smooth.
    I’d recommend top quality wire, no mig can give its best with a poor consumable and a high end mig seems a bit of a waste of money if you’re going to hamper it’s performance with inconsistent spattery wire.
     
    Munkul likes this.
  20. Munkul

    Munkul Jack of some trades, Master of none

    Messages:
    3,144
    Location:
    Cumbria
    Exactly... I like the look of the Tweco fusion guns as well, but no actual real life experience of them... again, has to be better than MB15/25
     
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