TIGnorant

[UKenGB]

My name is Ken and I'm a TIGnoramus.

OK, confessions over, I'm hoping for some advice on that very common topic, which welder to buy and obviously my interest is in TIG. I'm not an experienced welder, but I have a gas kit and also a cheap stick, both of which I have used occasionally over the years. Now I would like to get to grips with TIG and to which end I obtained a used Miller Syncrowave 250. However, before even trying to use it, I have realised it is far to big (physically) for my workshop and so I'm looking for something with less actual size, but also a 200A machine would suffice.

I would of course like the best machine I can get as I want this to be the last welder I ever buy, but I can't see me affording much more than £1K, preferably a lot less, but realistically I realise that's unlikely. Would love a Lorch, but don't think I can stretch that far (and remain alive if you know what I mean )

Aluminium welding is required, so it has to be AC/DC and pulse capability would seem like a good thing to have. A low minimum is desirable and about 200A is likely to be the max I need, but importantly I want to run it off 240v single phase.

The biggest issue is I think the basic machine type. I like the idea of an inverter as they are smaller and more portable, but I am concerned about their general reliability. This is largely a hobby for me and it will not be getting regular use. I don't want to dig it out after months of inactivity and find it simply doesn't work. Am I unnecessarily concerned about this or should I definitely avoid inverters?

Any comments or suggestions welcome.

 

[Paul G]

Hi Ken.
Love your thread title and your first line.

Are you sure it won't fit in? Most would kill for one of those.

Clear out under the bench and fit it under.

Build a "coal bunker" shape on the outside of the workshop and cut a hole in the wall.

There must be a way.

Cheers,
Paul G

 

[hotrodder]

What Paul said.

Inverters aren't necessarily unreliable (mines getting on for 13) but a 1K budget means second hand or Chinese... second hand is potentially risky as they're all stuffed full of witchcraft and while the big brand name kit is designed and laid out better (heat sinking, air flow through the thing etc) they still aren't bulletproof and repair costs can be eyewatering. Chinese kit sold in the UK is built to compete on price only for the most part so you need to be careful who you buy from i.e. more likely to pop in the early days so from somewhere that's known for good customer service etc. Unsuprisingly this puts the price up compared to what the 'here today gone tomorrow' cheapnese box movers sell the same/virtually the same kit for. Rtech is a name that's gonna crop up sooner or later*, a search of the forum will find a few threads where a new machine has gone bang/didn't work properly out of the box but you'll struggle to find any reports on the interweb from anyone that's had problems getting it fixed/replaced quickly and to their satisfaction. Not a pop at anyone but something to bear in mind is that many (most?) of reviews etc regarding (especially) cheaper machines are gonna be written by someone new to welding that's just bought their first machine to learn to weld...

While a lot simpler the Syncrowave will still have PCBs inside it however they're built like tanks by one of the biggest names in welding kit and are renowned for being fantastic and going on forever. Find/make the room for it and (if you haven't already) sort out enough electricity to feed the beast. If you don't need to be mobile the cheap stick welder can be moved on as all TIGs do stick welding too. Fit castors to other stuff so they can be wheeled out of the way when not in use/have a clear out/build a bigger workshop/a workshop extension etc

* others include Tec-Arc (like Rtech they started out in the machine repair business IIRC), Parweld and, at the higher end of cheap, Thermal Arc (big companys that sticks their name on kit)

 

[Wallace]

I've had a TecArc 206i over 3 years now and it has been brilliant, the latest version is the 216i. At 24kg I would not describe it as portable in comparison to some of the newer inverters but it is within your budget.

 

[matt1978]

Some one put a link on here for a ACDC unit from Ebay Italy that was brand new for circa £500.

It would appear the same unit was available online the UK for £1500 albeit not on enay and a diff colour so definitely worth doing some research.

If your budget is quite small I'd be inclined to stick with the Syncro.

Obviously if you went with the Italian EBay unit after sales care maybe questionable.

 

[wheresmejumper]

i rolled the dice with a chinese tig from a german seller.
should be here in a few days and will report back

 

[matt1978]

Are you sure you couldn't of got the same or simerla unit from within the UK for a comparable cost? It's only because after sales care would be much easier if you was both in the same country. It all depends on the cost saving you have made.

The one I mentioned was a third of the price it is being sold for in the UK so would of been worth the risk.

Fingers crossed it'll all go fine anyway

 

[wheresmejumper]

same as rtech digital,with a pedal for 1/3 of the price
the person in Italy was selling a slightly different machine,and feedback was woeful
german fella was honest,knew answers to every question,told me what they were costing him,and i made him an offer.very good feedback also

 

[matt1978]

Sounds good. Let us know how you get on.

 

[UKenGB]

Something I am somewhat unclear about is 'pulse' operation. I understand it to mean that the current is pulsed in order to reduce the overall heat input - handy for welding thin materials. So:-

Is that correct?

Do i really need it? How useful is it really?

My Syncrowave doesn't do pulse, so I'm wondering how important that is.

 

[justmental]

pulse will help a great deal when welding near a edge.
this video will help explain it more
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geasK5nD4T0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NkFRlbJNZk

 

[hotrodder]

Pulse is useful but far from necessary, the aerospace boys and girls got on fine without it before inverters came along. Personally i think of it as most useful with higher frequencies*, agree with most of what was said in the vids but to me highfrequency pulse = above 100Hz. About the only time i'd use a low frequency pulse is autogenous (without filler wire) work, typically that means stainless or Ti and frequencies in the 1.7 - 3 Hz range with much higher travel speeds than i could manage if feeding wire and peak to background ratios of 3 or 4:1

Note that most of the cheaper/cheapnese inverters won't manage more than 25Hz, from Rtech you'd need to spring for the 'digital' panel version which pretty much doubles the price. I think the TecArc that Weldequip sells is the only one that offers a high frequency pulse within your budget and it does so at the expense of AC frequency which is more useful IMO.

I'd MUCH rather own the Syncrowave than any of the candidates within budget as i could live quite happily without pulse or AC frequency

* Improves the depth to width ratio of the weld and results in a VERY stiff and focused arc

 

[UKenGB]

Is 'pulse' the preserve of inverters, or can a traditional transformer based unit also do pulse?

Looking at the Portamig specs, it says "Electronic Pulse HF Start", but is that just a fancy HF start or are there 2 features listed on that one line? Does it have "Electronic Pulse" AND "HF start"?

Although still larger than an inverter (and uses far more power) it is only half the size of the Syncrowave.

Having said that, a nice Lorch T220 sitting on a shelf would be ideal. Or even a HandyTIG 180 would probably do. But is it worth even thinking about such an outlay? For longevity should I avoid inverters? I guess that's the first decision to make.

 

[Paul G]

Hi Ken.

I have a Miller Dynasty that I bought s/h (1 year old) and have had it 6 years now.
I seldom use all of it's bells and whistles, but chose it for three reasons.

1. It's built like a brick out house.
2. Runs off any supply. (110v 230v 3ph)
3. Portability. (about 10% of my work is on site)

Although the initial outlay was high I have no regrets and it's paid for itself many times over and it's still worth a fair amount,
not that I'd sell it.


In my opinion the biggest killer of inverters is switching off when you have just finished welding. I always let the machine run for several minutes to allow the fan to cool it, in fact I apply this to all electrical tools where practical.

The Dynasty is "fan on demand" so at low amps the fan never comes on but at medium and higher settings the fan cuts in when needed.
Even if the fan isn't on when I do the days final weld I still let it settle down for a while before switching it off.


The other thing I never do is run a welder flat out. If I needed 200amps I'd own a 250.


To sum up, I think of welders in much the same way as I think of cars.
If I need to cruse at 80 on the motorway then I own a vehicle that will do more.
Bells & whistles are nice, but by no means a necessity, and also there's a reason why the recognised makes may cost
a little more, but fetch a premium if you need to sell them.

( btw, I run a 10 year old Passat diesel estate. Yup, I know, I'm Mr Boring. )

Cheers,
Paul G

 

[UKenGB]

I guess my wish list is basically a Lorch T220 or Miller Dynasty 200 or Lorch HandyTig 200 (probably in that order). If I'm going inverter, then I think it makes sense to get one of most reputable makes with proven track record and customer backup.

But cost is an issue so decent second hand is probably what I'll be looking for. Don't suppose anyone er, has, er, one of these going for a song?

 

[Seren-y-mor]

Some one put a link on here for a ACDC unit from Ebay Italy that was brand new for circa £500.

It would appear the same unit was available online the UK for £1500 albeit not on enay and a diff colour so definitely worth doing some research.

If your budget is quite small I'd be inclined to stick with the Syncro.

Obviously if you went with the Italian EBay unit after sales care maybe questionable.

http://www.fema-spa.it/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=11&Itemid=4&lang=en

Yes, that was me, but in the end I bought an R-TECH AC/DC 161. I wasn't able to get confirmed that the 2 year European warranty was available in the UK on the Fema so, despite the spec v price decided to ignore it. The R-Tech offers as much for just a little more than the Fema but is backed up by a UK company with a good reputation . . . and an EXTENDED gaurantee available beyond the original 2 years too!

 

[UKenGB]

On the advice from this thread, I've managed to re-arrange my workshop to enable the Syncrowave to be accommodated. I had a look at the layout yesterday and had a brainstorm, realising it would slot into a gap in the corner and by removing the bottle/cooler tray at the rear, it doesn't stick out too far (there's an obvious place for the bottle just beside it). In fact, I might cut off the extensions to the frame on which the tray normally sits so it can be pushed even further back. I could always weld them back on again.

Now I just need to source a bottle of argon and hopefully a foot pedal. Oh and try to figure out how to connect the HUGE cable coming out the back to the mains.

Thanks for all the help and advice.

 

[Wallace]

Depending on where you decide to get the Argon from, don't get a small bottle to start with as you run out pretty quickly when you start practicing!

 

[Paul G]

You've seen the light Ken.

Quote.
"Oh and try to figure out how to connect the HUGE cable coming out the back to the mains."


I know the feeling.
If I used mine just in the workshop I would have gone for a blue socket, which is what I have done for my Lincoln MIG.
However, since I need to use the Dynasty on site I have opted for an old 13 amp plug, the type that has solid brass
live & neutral pins and knurled nuts inside to secure the wires.

The 4th wire is heat-shrinked and folded back as it's not needed for single phase, and the whole thing finished off with
a gland shield.
Looks rubbish though doesn't it.

I second what has already been said regarding cylinder size.

Cheers,
Paul G

 

[UKenGB]

...However, since I need to use the Dynasty on site I have opted for an old 13 amp plug, the type that has solid brass
live & neutral pins and knurled nuts inside to secure the wires.

...

I second what has already been said regarding cylinder size.

Cheers,
Paul G

The Dynasty has to be easier though than my Syncrowave as the transformer based machine can use a LOT of current. I can't see me being able to run it at full chat from my workshop which has a 60A supply which wouldn't be sufficient. Another reason why an inverter was being considered. The Syncrowave ought to be ok for what I need though.

I was already planning to start with a full size bottle. I'm not known for 'half-measures'.