Thinking of trading my Lorch 150H for a mig

[sd1cko]

Hi guys,
Ive been a reader of this forum for some time, getting many pointers and plenty of help and advice by reading other people posts.

Ive had my Lorch for about a year now, and mainly used it for small repair jobs and hobby use i.e making work benches, car ramps etc.

I chose arc over mig due to it being nice and portable, and also because I could weld outside in windy conditions if need be. But it obviously isn't too practical at welding the underside of cars etc (however I've only needed to do this the once)

I mainly use 2 or 3mm wall box section and tube to construct things and I manage to weld this just fine and nice and tidy when welding flat, but vertical ups just end up looking a complete pigs ear and I quite often end up making huge holes which I then use the 2 sticks method to fill!!

Anyway, to cut a long story short, I have been thinking of getting my self a mig to make things a little more straight forward and also less time consuming. I enjoy using arc, but I feel it may be aimed at things a little more heavy duty than I use. The only thing putting me off is the possible cost of arg/co2 mix. How much does it cost to fill a large (is it 45 litre???) bottle, and will anywhere fill these for me (I've heard conflicting stories).

And lastly would I be likely to find someone to trade a half decent mig for my Lorch 150H ?? As I don't really want to use Ebay and end up getting hardly anything for it, or paying huge fee's for having a high reserve, and obviously high postage costs. Also I'm not sure as to the value of such an item that is now second hand?

Thank you for reading and I look forward to any responses I get

 

[scarecrow]

cant really help you on what its wort. but can give you a tip on doing vertical ups on light box give it a vertical down first makes a big difference
but mig is far better and quicker i all most forget what a hole looks like

 

[Slim Shady]

Hi sd1cko and welcome.
I myself use stick over mig all the time, granted its a bit slower but I much prefer it. Vertical up is not really that hard if you practise the pattern with the welder turned off and when you feel comfortable try it. As for ar/co2 have a look at the Shielding Gas section. If you still want to get rid of the Lorch give me a PM with an asking price.

 

[sd1cko]

Thanks for the replies guys!
As for the vertical down first, that actually makes a lot of sense and if I get chance I will give it a try tomorrow night.
Where I work we produce nothing but steel fabrications, however using nothing but mig which I used to borrow the use of on my dinner breaks etc until I bought the Lorch (I don't work on the fabrication side but on the paint and shot blast side of production). Since buying the Lorch and getting used to it I actually prefer to use it over mig, as it seems more predicable and controllable to me, also with a better penetration, but that could be down to practice. I feel as though I am perhaps cheating if I go out and swap my Lorch for a mig because of awkward welding angles. However my next project is going to be a lawn mower engine powered go-kart for the kids followed hopefully in the future (maybe a year or so with current commitments) by a full blown (possibly road worthy) bike engined buggy, or bike engine powered mini or similar. Mainly driven from a love of bikes, but Ive not owned one since I lost my best friend to a bike accident a couple of years ago and I feel something like this could still bring back those "high octane" feelings and smells without the missus getting all worried about me straddling a ZX10r or similar
Would a mig be more practical to building the latter? From my experience maybe a mig would be best suited due to the angles but if someone can tell me otherwise I would be more than willing to put my skills to the test when the time comes.
And thanks to Slim for the offer but I really wouldn't know what to ask price wise at the moment, especially with being undecided. But don't get me wrong, as if a nice offer came in I would most likely snap that persons hand off as at the end of the day it would be a new "toy" and I never could resist
As for the "cold" practice I've tried this but my problem seems to be I cannot see the weld puddle properly. Everything seems to look and feel as normal, until I get the usual hollow noise followed by a hole which I then try to deal with on the spot like i learnt to do on flat welding (thing of the past now) but I just make it worse. And when Ive finished the "up" and take a look minus mask, it looks like "bird sh@t!" and I can sometimes snap the weld by hand!!!
Also by vertical up I mean on a fresh butt joint. If its between a 90 degree join I can do these a doddle I've tried prepping the joint in numerous ways but always with the same outcome. I also have the same difficulty welding say a 2mm wall chs to a 3mm wall rhs, I seem to always make at least one small hole!!! the other 90% will be fine! . If I try a lower amperage by say 10 amps lower it seems to go fine but the penetration is shockingly poor and I find I have to do 3 overlapping welds or more which ends up looking really untidy and is still not as strong as a single good flat bead that I can normally run. I use 2.5mm and 3.2mm selectarc 6013 rods (courtesy of a very very little used stock at work ) so as far as I'm aware they are not of poor quality?? Perhaps I'm wrong?? Also I use a reverse polarity setup as thats what I found it easier to learn with (more penetration at lower amps I'm led to believe??). Maybe I need to revert???

 

[Slim Shady]

If I were you right now I would keep on using the lorch and wait untill you have the money for a mig. On butt joints what space are you leaving. Leave no more than the thickness of the steel. Maby move a bit faster. Selectarc rods are okay from my experience with them but I always bake them a bit first. I only use DCEP for thicker sections. But try it anyways. What amps are you running for the butt joints.

 

[sd1cko]

Yes I think you may be right Slim. As for gaps I leave as little as possible given the thin material being used. I may try your baking method too I think as I've been storing them in the garage in their box.

 

[sd1cko]

Actually slim, looking at your avatar, you might be able to help me with another thought I've had which is a positive side to keeping the Lorch, and thats getting a TIG torch for it. I've always fancied trying TIG but is going the MMA adaptation a recommended way of using TIG? I hear people say it's not so clever (scratch start)?? The initial thing that put me off TIG primarily was the cost of a unit but I was hoping this would be a best of both worlds situation? Albeit with disadvantages perhaps???

 

[shenion]

You can get a conversion kit like the one in weldequips shop, Lorch lists a TIG kit also.

Scratch start is not ideal but usable. I think some electrodes work better as far as contamination. I have seen using an old motor brush to start the arc on.

The H 150 mentions "ContactTIG" as a feature so maybe it has a low-current start for TIG. That would make it nice to use.

TIG will be slower but easier to use on thinner stuff.

 

[Slim Shady]

Actually slim, looking at your avatar, you might be able to help me with another thought I've had which is a positive side to keeping the Lorch, and thats getting a TIG torch for it. I've always fancied trying TIG but is going the MMA adaptation a recommended way of using TIG? I hear people say it's not so clever (scratch start)?? The initial thing that put me off TIG primarily was the cost of a unit but I was hoping this would be a best of both worlds situation? Albeit with disadvantages perhaps???

I use my Lincoln Invertec 135 for all my dc tig welding just because I learned scratch start from when I was young so its second nature to me. All you need is the torch with a valve, a regulator, a bottle of argon and some tungstens. If you need any help setting it up, I would be more than happy to help.

The H 150 mentions "ContactTIG" as a feature so maybe it has a low-current start for TIG. That would make it nice to use.

I am not sure on the lorch but the Lincoln has lift tig which is the same as contact tig(correct me if im wrong) but it is very easy to start, even on 0.7mm wall stainless.

 

[Slim Shady]

Yes I think you may be right Slim. As for gaps I leave as little as possible given the thin material being used. I may try your baking method too I think as I've been storing them in the garage in their box.

Sorry, I missed your post. I find they go to crap in my workshop anyways cause its always cold. Try baking them in a home oven @ 200C if you dont have an electrode oven. I find it makes a huge difference.

 

[matt1978]

Your right Slim. I think Lift Arc is a registered trade mark of ESAB. Not sure about lift tig, but its all the same.

 

[Slim Shady]

thanks matt I knew someone would confirm it

 

[sd1cko]

Thanks to everyone for your replies. I had been looking at that exact same piece of kit in the weldequip shop. Previously I wasn't sure if I would need a "tig box" but am I right in thinking they are only necessary for ac arc welders or arc welders without the built in lift start (or similar) function. Think I will be ordering one shortly, but what are the regulators like to set up the correct flow rate on these? Would it be wise to buy either a different reg' or a separate flow meter? also would a 9L bottle be sufficient? We only use co2/arg mix and oxygen, acetylene and propane at work so it's not something I could borrow to try out. Added to the fact they are all 300 to 420 bar bottles too, so a little heavy

 

[wyn]

The H150 works fine for scratch start tig.
There's a bit of info on this thread where i tried my H150 for tig.

 

[Slim Shady]

Thanks to everyone for your replies. I had been looking at that exact same piece of kit in the weldequip shop. Previously I wasn't sure if I would need a "tig box" but am I right in thinking they are only necessary for ac arc welders or arc welders without the built in lift start (or similar) function. Think I will be ordering one shortly, but what are the regulators like to set up the correct flow rate on these? Would it be wise to buy either a different reg' or a separate flow meter? also would a 9L bottle be sufficient? We only use co2/arg mix and oxygen, acetylene and propane at work so it's not something I could borrow to try out. Added to the fact they are all 300 to 420 bar bottles too, so a little heavy

Weldequips regulator is very good quality but I would advise you to get an addon flowmeter aswell. The 9L bottles will not last long at all. See can you get a Y or W size bottle from BOC or Air Products. You are right about the TIG boxes.