The Return Of Nuclear Power !?!

[Ross365]

there's a really big downside with lead acid batteries - they are so slow to charge.

 

[PhillipM]

there's a really big downside with lead acid batteries - they are so slow to charge.

Is 4-8 hours for the bulk of the charge to be restored really much of an issue for grid storage? Sounds ideal for all that overnight wind power really...

 

[fizzy]

there's a really big downside with lead acid batteries - they are so slow to charge.

Doesn't matter for wind and solar.

 

[Ross365]

Doesn't matter for wind and solar.

Is that argument valid? There will be times when the weather limits the yield from either (esp wind). So overnight, you want to store as much as possible. Don't faster charging batteries provide a better option? I guess that battery price comes in to it and that you probably need a complex mathematical calculation to work out the break points?

 

[PhillipM]

I think the issue is are you likely to need battery packs that can charge from flat to full in an hour for the massive amount of storage the grid systems need? And the answer is almost always no, not unless your battery wouldn't charge fast enough for the cycle of events it covers. High discharge rates for smoothing or takeover is what you need and lead acid can deliver that nicely. If you really needed it you can setup a lead acid bank that will take 60-70% of it's max SoC in an hour or less anyway, depends on the setup and needs.
There's better options but it's not necessarily a bad use case.

 

[Erie Fred]

I think the issue is are you likely to need battery packs that can charge from flat to full in an hour for the massive amount of storage the grid systems need? And the answer is almost always no, not unless your battery wouldn't charge fast enough for the cycle of events it cover. High discharge rates for smoothing or takeover is what you need and lead acid can deliver that nicely.
There's better options but it's not necessarily a bad use case.

Do pumped water storage systems meet this criteria ?

 

[PhillipM]

Do pumped water storage systems meet this criteria ?

That's going to be very design dependent I would think, whether you're using the same turbines in reverse for pumping, or separate routes, etc.

 

[Erie Fred]

That's going to be very design dependent I would think, whether you're using the same turbines in reverse for pumping, or separate routes, etc.

I'm talking about current, been around for many years systems.
They have all night to fill, and take just minutes to come on line, and sync to the grid when needed.

 

[PhillipM]

I'm not seeing the point you're trying to make?

Why are you asking me if you already know?

 

[Erie Fred]

I'm not seeing the point you're trying to make?

Why are you asking me if you already know?

You are talking about needing "hi-speed charging" (that lead batteries cannot do), yet pumped hydro has been filling the need of the grid for decades, proving that the need for batteries that can accept high speed charging, is not needed.

 

[PhillipM]

I wasn't talking about it at all, I was saying it didn't really matter, but you could set up Lead Acid to do fairly quick charging if needed anyway. Think you're pointing fingers at the wrong person there.

 

[500e]

Play nicely

 

[My Old Landy]

There is a lot of welding in a nuclear reactor, just saying

 

[Ross365]

There is a lot of welding in a nuclear reactor, just saying

Probably millions of man-hours in a British AGR, all of which were built at a time when industrial relations in the UK were at their very worst.

When Heysham II AGR was 99% complete and just before the uranium oxide fuel was loaded, I went in to the core of one reactor (via pipes about 24" wide). The number of people who could go in at any one time at that stage was tightly controlled (bllody hard to get out in an emergency) and so there were no foreman. There were a couple of welders there sat drinking tea and reading copies of the 'Sun'.

 

[Munkul]

There is a lot of welding in a nuclear reactor, just saying

there's about twice as much writing weld travellers as there is actually welding though

 

[My Old Landy]

there's about twice as much writing weld travellers as there is actually welding though

Just trying to get the thread back from the clutches of a lock as I find the varying opinions quite entertaining!

 

[Farside]

Probably millions of man-hours in a British AGR, all of which were built at a time when industrial relations in the UK were at their very worst.

When Heysham II AGR was 99% complete and just before the uranium oxide fuel was loaded, I went in to the core of one reactor (via pipes about 24" wide). The number of people who could go in at any one time at that stage was tightly controlled (bllody hard to get out in an emergency) and so there were no foreman. There were a couple of welders there sat drinking tea and reading copies of the 'Sun'.

"On our break, mate."

 

[Morrisman]

I saw this a couple of days ago, looks like it could be up and running in five years.

It had to be built in France though.....

Britain's first new nuclear reactor in 30 years arrives at Bristol docks

It is the first of two reactors which will eventually power some of the world's largest steam turbines

www.bristolpost.co.uk

 

[Ross365]

I saw this a couple of days ago, looks like it could be up and running in five years. It had to be built in France though.....

Britain's first new nuclear reactor in 30 years arrives at Bristol docks

It is the first of two reactors which will eventually power some of the world's largest steam turbines

www.bristolpost.co.uk

That's very interesting to see. Of course, there have been reports that the French pressure vessels have significant non-uniformities in their alloying, but just as long as they are "adequate for purpose".

Of course, you could pack many PWR pressure vessels inside an AGR pressure vessel. The huge thermal mass of the AGR vessel means that a loss of coolant accident would be annoying and inconvenient, but not as annoying as going rapidly in to the "China Syndrome"

 

[Wedg1e]

All this talk about 'small modular reactors' completely ignores that fact that the reactor is only a small part of the overall workings of a power station, and while you can shrink the kettle you can't really make a steam-turbine alternator complete with building, services and support infrastructure, car park, substation etc. etc. SMALL.