The Return Of Nuclear Power !?!

[Ross365]

Candu reactor seems reasonable.

Ah Candu! That Canadian system has probably never got the credit or recognition it deserves. And here's a curious thing that few people may know;, back in the 1960's we Brits built a prototype reactor which had quite a lot in common with Candu. It fed power to the National Grid for over 20 years and then was closed and swept under the rug lest it distract anyone from suggested it was better than a British AGR. It was know as the Winfrith Steam Generating Heavy Water Reactor (SGHWR), see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam-Generating_Heavy_Water_Reactor. Maybe British nuclear could have gone a very different and better path?

 

[fizzy]

Sodium batteries don't use cobalt or copper.

The electric motors do though

 

[daleyd]

Oil supplies are a lot more widespread than cobalt. Also Uranium can be produced in breeder reactors or extracted from sea water should it become a problem.

Oh undoubtedly, just pointing out that lots of other things are in "dodgy" areas too. Jumping up and down because a mine has issues and declaring "it's not a good idea" smacks a bit of hysteria TBH.

 

[fizzy]

Oh undoubtedly, just pointing out that lots of other things are in "dodgy" areas too. Jumping up and down because a mine has issues and declaring "it's not a good idea" smacks a bit of hysteria TBH.

It isn't just that though. A lot of the cobalt mining is done in a very destructive manner sometimes using child labour. Where weight isn't an issue I think lead acid batteries still have more going for them. Lead is very easy to recycle and I think it is a much greener option.

 

[Erie Fred]

The electric motors do though

Aluminum wire has been used...

 

[daleyd]

It isn't just that though. A lot of the cobalt mining is done in a very destructive manner sometimes using child labour. Where weight isn't an issue I think lead acid batteries still have more going for them. Lead is very easy to recycle and I think it is a much greener option.

You are of course correct that it shouldn't happen, but that wasn't the link you posted.

 

[brewdexta]

The electric motors do though

So do ICE starter motors and alternator

I think lead acid batteries still have more going for them. Lead is very easy to recycle and I think it is a much greener option.

Sodium is greener, you sprinkle it on your chips

 

[Ross365]

there's a really big downside with lead acid batteries - they are so slow to charge.

 

[PhillipM]

there's a really big downside with lead acid batteries - they are so slow to charge.

Is 4-8 hours for the bulk of the charge to be restored really much of an issue for grid storage? Sounds ideal for all that overnight wind power really...

 

[fizzy]

there's a really big downside with lead acid batteries - they are so slow to charge.

Doesn't matter for wind and solar.

 

[Ross365]

Doesn't matter for wind and solar.

Is that argument valid? There will be times when the weather limits the yield from either (esp wind). So overnight, you want to store as much as possible. Don't faster charging batteries provide a better option? I guess that battery price comes in to it and that you probably need a complex mathematical calculation to work out the break points?

 

[PhillipM]

I think the issue is are you likely to need battery packs that can charge from flat to full in an hour for the massive amount of storage the grid systems need? And the answer is almost always no, not unless your battery wouldn't charge fast enough for the cycle of events it covers. High discharge rates for smoothing or takeover is what you need and lead acid can deliver that nicely. If you really needed it you can setup a lead acid bank that will take 60-70% of it's max SoC in an hour or less anyway, depends on the setup and needs.
There's better options but it's not necessarily a bad use case.

 

[Erie Fred]

I think the issue is are you likely to need battery packs that can charge from flat to full in an hour for the massive amount of storage the grid systems need? And the answer is almost always no, not unless your battery wouldn't charge fast enough for the cycle of events it cover. High discharge rates for smoothing or takeover is what you need and lead acid can deliver that nicely.
There's better options but it's not necessarily a bad use case.

Do pumped water storage systems meet this criteria ?

 

[PhillipM]

Do pumped water storage systems meet this criteria ?

That's going to be very design dependent I would think, whether you're using the same turbines in reverse for pumping, or separate routes, etc.

 

[Erie Fred]

That's going to be very design dependent I would think, whether you're using the same turbines in reverse for pumping, or separate routes, etc.

I'm talking about current, been around for many years systems.
They have all night to fill, and take just minutes to come on line, and sync to the grid when needed.

 

[PhillipM]

I'm not seeing the point you're trying to make?

Why are you asking me if you already know?

 

[Erie Fred]

I'm not seeing the point you're trying to make?

Why are you asking me if you already know?

You are talking about needing "hi-speed charging" (that lead batteries cannot do), yet pumped hydro has been filling the need of the grid for decades, proving that the need for batteries that can accept high speed charging, is not needed.

 

[PhillipM]

I wasn't talking about it at all, I was saying it didn't really matter, but you could set up Lead Acid to do fairly quick charging if needed anyway. Think you're pointing fingers at the wrong person there.

 

[500e]

Play nicely

 

[My Old Landy]

There is a lot of welding in a nuclear reactor, just saying