The Return Of Nuclear Power !?!

[mike os]

RR have been making reactors for our submarines for over 50 years. They have not been perfect but none have gone seriously wrong. This sounds like a better approach than the various alternatives depending on Russian gas, French reactors etc, etc. I'm sure that one of the old Magnox sites in N.Wales may well get one .

20 to 30 years time is my guess

 

[Ross365]

20 to 30 years time is my guess

Hard to say. I had a job interview at Rolls in the early 1980's and they were talking about these even then. At that time, they thought they could sell them to the "Third World", but subsequent security concerns knocked that on the head. I think we could have the first one in less than 10 years.

 

[mike os]

Hard to say. I had a job interview at Rolls in the early 1980's and they were talking about these even then. At that time, they thought they could sell them to the "Third World", but subsequent security concerns knocked that on the head. I think we could have the first one in less than 10 years.

pretty much my point, it was soon in the 70's imminent in the 80's but 40 years later we still dont even have a working prototype, hell we barely have a functioning test bed, haven't even proven the theory yet, certainly haven't achieved a proof of concept

 

[GRW]

Politician's IMO have always asked Joe Public the wrong question when it comes to nuclear.
They ask "do you want nuclear?" Which always gets a resounding NO!
If instead they were to ask "do you want to go back to pre-war power, with periods without any electricity and then only very restricted power - or will you accept Nuclear power as it's the only viable resource - and the answer is very likely to be different.
(Once you'd got past all the bull and lobbying of those with a vested interest in Wind/Solar and no interest in whether or not Joe Public is sat in the dark or not that is )

 

[mike os]

Politician's IMO have always asked Joe Public the wrong question when it comes to nuclear.
They ask "do you want nuclear?" Which always gets a resounding NO!
If instead they were to ask "do you want to go back to pre-war power, with periods without any electricity and then only very restricted power - or will you accept Nuclear power as it's the only viable resource - and the answer is very likely to be different.
(Once you'd got past all the bull and lobbying of those with a vested interest in Wind/Solar and no interest in whether or not Joe Public is sat in the dark or not that is )

or even blunter... do you want coal/gas, nuclear or lights out at 7pm?

 

[Ross365]

As I understand it, the SMR cannot be a direct copy of the submarine reactor, but it will be a comparable pressurised water reactor using uranium oxide fuel instead of uranium metal. I'd bet that many of the key components are already designed and 3D printed, if not actually prototyped. I'd guess that Rolls are looking at world sales and have probably spent significant money on this in recent years. Wouldn't you love it if they could sell them in to the US and EU .

 

[mike os]

As I understand it, the SMR cannot be a direct copy of the submarine reactor, but it will be a comparable pressurised water reactor using uranium oxide fuel instead of uranium metal. I'd bet that many of the key components are already designed and 3D printed, if not actually prototyped. I'd guess that Rolls are looking at world sales and have probably spent significant money on this in recent years. Wouldn't you love it if they could sell them in to the US and EU .

ah so we are talking conventional compact unit here?

 

[Ross365]

From what you can find on the net, it appears to be a "textbook" PWR design, which would incorporate all the best features learned from problems with earlier PWR's. Few companies other than RR would be better qualified to do it. Of course, the key Sheffield company which will cast the pressure vessel was bought by the Government just a couple of months ago. I'd guess that the fuel will be made by the establishment at Springfields just outside Preston; they made all the oxide fuel for every previous British reactor, and are probably desperate for the business (is the fuel already sitting in the warehouse???).

 

[Munkul]

that's an interesting point about Forgemasters; however, the RR SMR project is a private venture so you'd have thought they would have bought out Forgemasters themselves if they were gearing up for a load of pressure vessel production? Or made some sort of commitment that way.

I saw the Forgemasters buy out as a panicked response by the MOD as they saw their last viable UK steel supplier struggling financially. The MOD NEED a UK steel supplier and the expertise that goes with it, if they want to remain a credible military power.
Does that mean it's still ran as a private company although public money is injected into it? Or will they specialise in MOD contracts only?

 

[julianf]

Fission or fusion ?
Ask yourself, is it easier to break something , or put something together.
Like burn wood or create wood.

I made a Victoria sponge cake once.

But then I wanted the eggs for somthing else....

 

[Lewis_RX8]

that's an interesting point about Forgemasters; however, the RR SMR project is a private venture so you'd have thought they would have bought out Forgemasters themselves if they were gearing up for a load of pressure vessel production? Or made some sort of commitment that way.

I saw the Forgemasters buy out as a panicked response by the MOD as they saw their last viable UK steel supplier struggling financially. The MOD NEED a UK steel supplier and the expertise that goes with it, if they want to remain a credible military power.
Does that mean it's still ran as a private company although public money is injected into it? Or will they specialise in MOD contracts only?

I remember reading their announcement they would keep the private work for offshore and things but will check their announcement

"We are pleased to announce that Sheffield Forgemasters is being acquired by the Ministry of Defence to support a substantial recapitalisation of our defence-critical plant and equipment over the next 10 years.

The investment will secure Sheffield Forgemasters’ role as a critical supplier to the next generation of UK Defence programmes, while continuing our independent commercial activities, serving markets such as Civil Nuclear, Oil & Gas, Power Generation, Renewables and Steel Processing.

The agreement is an important milestone for the company, the Sheffield City region and UK manufacturing, recognising our status as a strategic national asset and providing security for the business and its employees.

In order to modernise the company’s plant and equipment to support its role as a long-term supplier to UK Defence, the transaction is structured to inject up to £400m of new investment over the next 10 years into defence-critical assets, including plans for a new heavy forge line and building, a flood alleviation scheme, major machine tool replacements and a site-wide HV upgrade. This is expected to retain and create new highly skilled manufacturing jobs within the Sheffield City region.

We would like to thank our customers, suppliers, employees and supporters for their continued support at this exciting time."

 

[Ross365]

The Government's acquisition of Forgemaster is a case of retaining nuclear submarines whatever the cost. It protects the capability and ensures no private collapses. And we might get to sell the reactors to Aus now! I think the SMR thing comes along just at the right time when this Government will do anything to keep RR in nuclear and this just helps maintain their critical mass (no pun intended). For once, this country seems to be doing something right, IMHO.

 

[Lewis_RX8]

 

[mike os]

View attachment 322066

Saw that one coming

 

[addjunkie]

Saw that one coming

Makes more sense than some of the other notions floatin* about

 

[Ross365]

Interesting...and totally predictable. You'd have to believe that the first contract for Rolls SMR could appear at any time, and no bad thing either.

 

[Ross365]

Any bets as to where the first RRSMR will be located??? My understanding is that it needn't be the coast (as per all the earlier big reactors) but some water will be required, so especially for the first one, I'm guessing a river or lake of some size.

After the cancellation of the Leeds end of HS2, political factors could point that way, as 'compensation' maybe? Manchester and Sheffield Universities are among the few that have kept some nuclear courses going. Goole, in East Yorkshire, and on the River Aire is short listed as a site for the Fusion reactor, but is unlikely to win that. Looking elsewhere, the old Magnox sites on the River Severn have a very active lobby pushing for their re-use.

 

[RaceDiagnostics]

Yes, I agree and I think it was and is an amazing achievement. I am really responding to the lay persons view. Wonder what they are going to say when ITER turns out to be a white elephant? As science projects get ever larger, we need to see some "payback" beyond confirming theories we already hold to be true. We need discoveries and as the years roll on, they become fewer and further in between.

The roll out of quantum computing to the mass market will be err, interesting. I guess that is a "byproduct" of our deeper understanding of physics but again, really only a difficult engineering challenge to exploit a quantum theory that was proposed over 100 years ago!

Remembered this post when watching this video about how particle physics is broken.

Having worked in CERN for a couple of years I came to the conclusion it had become a total waste of money.

 

[minimutly]

Remembered this post when watching this video about how particle physics is broken.

Having worked in CERN for a couple of years I came to the conclusion it had become a total waste of money.

A massive total waste of money...

 

[Ross365]

Fusion seems to have picked up a lot of attention over the past year or so. I was listening to a journalist on an American NPR station a while ago who was proposing that some of what is going on re "fusion" is actually being funded to support weapon development. Ever since atmospheric tests were banned, development of N weapons has depended a lot on computer simulation, but this guy claimed they now need to perform some experiments (in order to make progress on weapons) and some of that is being done under the cover of fusion energy research.

As for SMR's, despite all the recent hype, there seems to me nothing more than hype!