The future of electric vehicle maintenance

[Dessieb2022]

It's all well and good bemoaning the high cost and unreliability of all these things, but the manufacturers are only providing what the consumer wants.

I've no doubt that they could make efficient and reliable petrol engines with 100BHP that would go on forever. But the consumer wants 220BHP and there the problems start.

And it's the same with lights and everything else. If we wanted 50w headlights, that's what they'd fit, but we don't, we want super bright ones that look round corners and light up the front grille like nightrider.

They're only fitting and making what sells, so we've only got ourselves to blame (or the neighbours)

I think they are making vehicles to accommodate unfair emission targets set by the government. I don't think anyone would of asked for dpfs, adblue, direct injection etc. The lack of EV sales show they aren't listening to the people but are being forced to make them by the government.

 

[premmington]

Absolutely - and it's one of the things in life where the race is still to the top, not the bottom. Car model development used to be >5 years, now it's ~18 months of generally repurposing existing parts & structures, rigging powertrains to meet increasingly draconian emissions regs and putting some 'lipstick on the pig' so the salesman has some shiny-shiny to wave in front of the people paying a kings ransom to lease it for a couple of years.

Bit of a side-note, one thing that does greatly concern me is the emission standards of EU6+ mean that the particulate matter that 'escapes' is sufficiently small that it stays airborne for longer and is capable of passing through the blood barrier membrane in our lungs. How can that be beneficial to us or wildlife?

@Ubique - Mate that is "quote of the month" - year maybe...?

some 'lipstick on the pig'

That made me an old man smile - no giggle a bit... Taking old engines - keep strapping emission stuff on them as the governments of the day want you to by an full EV.

 

[Seadog]

I think they are making vehicles to accommodate unfair emission targets set by the government. I don't think anyone would of asked for dpfs, adblue, direct injection etc. The lack of EV sales show they aren't listening to the people but are being forced to make them by the government.

Forced at our expense, but for whose benefit?
I'll stop now

 

[rtcosic]

Having spent my life on the other side of the fuel-vehicle argument...

Policy makers look at what the upper decile performance of fuel or vehicle can do, then apply that as a minimum standard for the other 90% to meet. Sometimes called technology forcing.
This means the standards rapidly evolve to the bleeding edge of current technology and industry is forced to try to make consumer products which have not been fully developed and/or are expensive, unreliable and a pain for the consumer to use.

Lighting technology that's 'cost appropriate' for a >>£100k Range Rover is grotesquely inappropriate for a little urban shopping trolley.

Politicians then enthusiastically adopt the policy makers' recommendations.

I won't comment on how many of the policy makers (don't) have STEM degrees, let alone any experience of making the products they are developing policy for. Or of making anything in fact.

Rant over.

I too will stop now

 

[DanZac]

I think they are making vehicles to accommodate unfair emission targets set by the government. I don't think anyone would of asked for dpfs, adblue, direct injection etc. The lack of EV sales show they aren't listening to the people but are being forced to make them by the government.

We may not have asked for those bits, but we all want 150BHP, 50+MPG, smooth power delivery, diesels that don't take 50 miles to warm up enough to defrost the windscreen, cars that don't belch black smoke and kill your kids (leaded petrol amyone?) and cars that start on a cold morning. Unfortunately you can't have one without the other.

I don't agree. These things are driven by marketing teams, not the buyers. Like monochrome paint, it is "the latest thing" so everyone drives dull and twilight invisible colours. iPads to control a car, electric handbrakes et al would never have been asked for by consumers, but it is what they get and they can like it or lump it.

If people didn't buy it, they wouldn't make it, its as simple as that. Marketing may lead the charge and convince us we want it, but can't make people buy it.

 

[reb78]

We may not have asked for those bits, but we all want 150BHP, 50+MPG, smooth power delivery, diesels that don't take 50 miles to warm up enough to defrost the windscreen, cars that don't belch black smoke and kill your kids (leaded petrol amyone?) and cars that start on a cold morning. Unfortunately you can't have one without the other.

An early 2000s BMW will easily do all of that. I'm in a 2006 e61 that meets those specs. I have no need for anything that has 'progressed' since then.

 

[ukracer]

It's unfit for purpose,give it back to them.

Probably a 6 month waiting list for a replacement.

 

[ajlelectronics]

If people didn't buy it, they wouldn't make it, its as simple as that. Marketing may lead the charge and convince us we want it, but can't make people buy it.

And their choice is? Many business friends are leasing oversized Scalextrics because the tax structure makes it ridiculous not to. When someone goes shopping for a new car, they get trackers "phoning home" speed limiters, lane assist, automatic braking etc etc. There IS no choice for Mrs Jones who wants a shopping trolley and has no mechanical interest. 'Er indoors is the same, she just wants a newish number plate to keep up with her sister and will not contemplate a decent reliable, good looking and repairable classic as a result.

 

[ukracer]

Seems like the car makers are reversing "going all-in on electric", and then you have the orange buffoon in the U.S. (no politics!) ripping up the climate change act, suggests that better-or-worse, petrol engines are going to be with us for a few decades yet.

The most amazing thing to me about EVs with their far fewer moving parts is that they are still more expensive to buy and maintain than the carbon-fueled variants. And then you have a £10-15k battery replacement concrete-necklace hanging round your neck.

Count me out, new or used.

I have a 3D printer which shows why its unwise to buy anything closed to a manufacturer.
They at least have logfiles. An electric vehicle will require expensive diagnostic equipment and then they wont tell you whats wrong.
I have had to put hours and hours into this printer.... I cant imagine how much an independant 3D repair shop would have cost me so far. (Even if one actually existed ) So EV specialists would be an insane price.

 

[Robotstar5]

So if a light fails, run into the back of some thing and its an insurance job!

All this new motoring is just far far to complex to really be called sustainable!

But due to the high cost of spares a couple of broken headlights will write the car off

 

[dobbslc]

Yep.
Not sustainable.
Not good for the environment.
Not good for the consumer.

 

[DanZac]

There IS no choice for Mrs Jones who wants a shopping trolley and has no mechanical interest. 'Er indoors is the same, she just wants a newish number plate to keep up with her sister and will not contemplate a decent reliable, good looking and repairable classic as a result.

Courtesy of google, looks like there's quite a lot of choice for simple new run arounds that arent loaded with unessecery tech?

 

[reb78]

Courtesy of google, looks like there's quite a lot of choice for simple new run arounds that arent loaded with unessecery tech?

View attachment 530220

They're pretty basic though. Again, I think BMW (and the like) had decent and not overly complicated cars with a good amount of luxury and comfort along with decent mpg and emissions in the early to mid 2000s

 

[dobbslc]

Courtesy of google, looks like there's quite a lot of choice for simple new run arounds that arent loaded with unessecery tech?

View attachment 530220

The problem is that any that are from 2024 or newer have this ADAS nonsense that either can't be turned off or has to be turned off every time you start it.
I do like the simple looks of the Dacia Duster but couldn't bring myself to own anything with modern Renault guts.

 

[Farside]

But due to the high cost of spares a couple of broken headlights will write the car off

I wonder if there's a market for an enterprising custom headlight maker.
Y'know, put a couple of 5" headlamps in a fairing per side.

 

[Bornfree]

But due to the high cost of spares a couple of broken headlights will write the car off

How did we let this happen?

 

[Morris]

How did we let this happen?

Apparently we asked for it

 

[500e]

And no Spare wheel or room for one, so beloved sits there for hours waiting for Breakdown to recover.
Or worse no phone cover to call anyone
Don't remember anyone asking for no spare wheel in 40+years in motor trade

 

[Ubique]

Courtesy of google, looks like there's quite a lot of choice for simple new run arounds that arent loaded with unessecery tech?

View attachment 530220

Utter misery on four wheels - they should call it a 'Meldrew'
And yes, ADAS is EU/UN mandated (quite how/why the UN got to stick it's nose in the trough is anyone's guess)

 

[DanZac]

They're pretty basic though. Again, I think BMW (and the like) had decent and not overly complicated cars with a good amount of luxury and comfort along with decent mpg and emissions in the early to mid 2000s

An early 2000s BMW will easily do all of that. I'm in a 2006 e61 that meets those specs. I have no need for anything that has 'progressed' since then.

I know nothing about BMW's but would that be the E61 with,

The E60 generation introduced various new electronic features, including the iDrive infotainment system, head-up display, active cruise control, active steering, adaptive headlights, night vision, lane departure warning and voice control. The E60 was the first 5 Series to be available with a turbocharged petrol engine, a 6-speed automatic transmission and regenerative braking. (Thankyou wikipedia)

All of which sounds dead easy to fix when it goes wrong.