Taps & Dies

[jordan1]

Thinking about buying a set, need them now with bike restoration. The bits I have are past their best. Point is I have seen a decent set which will do the job, my question is one retailer is listing the taps as taper & intermediate, the other is listing them as taper & plug. Which will be the best to go for, for general use?.
TIA

 

[brightspark]

Thinking about buying a set, need them now with bike restoration. The bits I have are past their best. Point is I have seen a decent set which will do the job, my question is one retailer is listing the taps as taper & intermediate, the other is listing them as taper & plug. Which will be the best to go for, for general use?.
TIA

depends on wether u need to drill and tap into a blind hole if thats the case a plug tap is needed . try tracy tools for a set . there tel number is in the links section or just google the name a set with all 3 is best

 

[jordan1]

depends on wether u need to drill and tap into a blind hole if thats the case a plug tap is needed . try tracy tools for a set . there tel number is in the links section or just google the name a set with all 3 is best

Mainly just normal straight through tapping with the occasional blind. I agree three would be best but not an option in this particular set.
Cheers

 

[Pete.]

I'd go for the taper & plug. If you're doing restos on engine cases the last thing you want to do is bottom out a bolt prematurely in a case bolt and have it snap. Mind you putting a tap in a case to clean up the thread has it's own problems. Be aware that a plug tap over here is a bottoming tap but in the states it's a second (intermediate) tap, just in case you're buying fom a US vendor. Also be aware that bikes have more than their fair share of fine thread bolts.

 

[jordan1]

I'd go for the taper & plug. If you're doing restos on engine cases the last thing you want to do is bottom out a bolt prematurely in a case bolt and have it snap. Mind you putting a tap in a case to clean up the thread has it's own problems. Be aware that a plug tap over here is a bottoming tap but in the states it's a second (intermediate) tap, just in case you're buying fom a US vendor. Also be aware that bikes have more than their fair share of fine thread bolts.

Cheers Pete, I believe the options are as stated. I had also thought that taper & plug would be best for me as I assume the plug could be used as the second cut in a normal thro' thread, the taper & inter. tap would be of no use in a blind situation. The set is a comprehensive one with both course & fine in each size in Tungsten.

 

[Pete.]

You want hss taps really.

You could put the plug tap through after the taper but only if you got the taper tap fully in. If you didn't you might not get the plug started. You need to be careful in cleaning up threads in ally casings using a tap as it can make the fit of the bolt very loose by cutting away material. Might find a roll tap a better prospect for that sort of thing.

 

[jordan1]

You want hss taps really.

You could put the plug tap through after the taper but only if you got the taper tap fully in. If you didn't you might not get the plug started. You need to be careful in cleaning up threads in ally casings using a tap as it can make the fit of the bolt very loose by cutting away material. Might find a roll tap a better prospect for that sort of thing.

Gets more confusing, may be better getting the taper & second tap set and buying seperately the odd plug tap in the size & pitch should I need one??.
The set I have in mind is the US Pro AT226, I don't need one for prolonged heavy use, just a decent one with a large range of sizes.
Cheers

 

[Uniqueusername]

For occasional use just get the set with the widest range of sizes and maybe even look at "rethreading" sets.
Then buy proper hss taps in the specific sizes you need.
p.s. roll thread or rethread engine cases, last choice would be a second or plug tap but never or not without extreme caution a 1st taper.

 

[chunkolini]

Following this thread with interest.
I am also in the market for a basic tap and die set. For general workshop use, cleaning up knackered threads, and tapping the occasional hole or maybe puttnng a thread the ends of bars now and again.

So I need, Taper, and second taps? I can see the point in these. I suppose it is not much more to get all three.

Can anybody reccomend a cheapish set to cover say 6-12mm threads. There seem to be loads out there.

Chunko'.

 

[brightspark]

Following this thread with interest.
I am also in the market for a basic tap and die set. For general workshop use, cleaning up knackered threads, and tapping the occasional hole or maybe puttnng a thread the ends of bars now and again.

So I need, Taper, and second taps? I can see the point in these. I suppose it is not much more to get all three.

Can anybody reccomend a cheapish set to cover say 6-12mm threads. There seem to be loads out there.

Chunko'.

tracytools its in the link section under workshop tools cheap but good quality machine mart have a metric set about 40 quid ish hss there a half decent set

 

[chunkolini]

Had a look at Traceytools, do I need metric fine/coarse/
I know B'all about this stuff. I just know that I go to my local bolt shop, Forest Fasteners, Cinderford and but M6/M10 etc etc.

I did see this one on fleabay which did not look too bad. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Toolzone-32Pc...t=UK_Hand_Tools_Equipment&hash=item4153e919f9

Will have a look at machine mart.

Chunko'.

 

[brightspark]

a handy set is the clarke cht527 32 piece hss set there iso metric coarse threads ideal for automotive and general workshop use size m3 to m12 it wouldnt suprise me if half these items by diffrent shops are all made in same place just re badged up like sealy

 

[jugs]

Had a look at Traceytools, do I need metric fine/coarse/
I know B'all about this stuff. I just know that I go to my local bolt shop, Forest Fasteners, Cinderford and but M6/M10 etc etc.

I did see this one on fleabay which did not look too bad. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Toolzone-32Pc...t=UK_Hand_Tools_Equipment&hash=item4153e919f9

Will have a look at machine mart.

Chunko'.

Hi chunko,
that set should do you for most general stuff, use tapping paste or @ least some grease on steel, WD40 or parafin on aly, do cast iron dry.

Normal bolts are metric coarse (as in that set), metric fine can be found on cars & m/bikes.

 

[graffian]

I wouldn't be hitting case threads with hand taps, especially 'Tungsten' ones.
Knowing how well cheap tool companies grind drills makes me wary of any thing that doesn't come from a named cutting tool maker.
Why not buy the taps you need.

 

[chunkolini]

The clarke one and the one I spotted are exactly he same. Just ten quid dearer.
Same box and fittings etc.
As Brightspark says I bet they are all made in the same factory.
Something like this wil do for me, it is just an ocasional use thing.

Chunko'

 

[jordan1]

Thanks for all your input guys, just getting more confused. Are HSS better than Tungsten?, I am not an engineer, but I get by ok, hence the advice needed. As I say I need a comprehensive metric range in decent quality that will do the job reasonably well. The set mentioned is supposed to retail at £250. What to do, what to do. Come on guys nail it down.

This set is available for around £90 delivered, but if it is crap it ain't cheap.

 

[jugs]

High speed steel is an alloy that combines several metals. Combinations often included in high speed steel include: tungsten, chromium, molybdenum, cobalt and others. Tungsten is the most common type of steel currently used in high speed steel products. However, there are many different types and designations of high speed steel, each having its own special combination. Some may use very little tungsten.

HSS is good . Carbon steel is bad
Remember to use lubrication, or there will be tears

 

[jordan1]

High speed steel is an alloy that combines several metals. Combinations often included in high speed steel include: tungsten, chromium, molybdenum, cobalt and others. Tungsten is the most common type of steel currently used in high speed steel products. However, there are many different types and designations of high speed steel, each having its own special combination. Some may use very little tungsten.

HSS is good . Carbon steel is bad Remember to use lubrication, or there will be tears

And Tungsten is good/bad or ugly ???

 

[hareng]

Might limit it down a bit but try and get a British or US brand name on the actual taps and dies. Quite a few repspected companies in the past are now rebranding chinese stuff as their own, so beware.

In the same boat well over 20 years ago i went to local moror place and bought a cheapish set. First try just to clean up an M10 thread with tap and i really mean no pressure, resulted in a trip to hospital with 4 stitches. These were a carbon set.

Carbon are cheap but i am very very weiry of using them, the Tracey Tools are good.
I usually buy single taps and dies but this will work out expensive or should i say cost effective. Suppose at least you know exactly what you are buying.

Always up to recently, last two years bought HSS whether coated or not. Since most of my stuff is aluminium for a standard tap i have found the carbon cut better. To beat this have to go for the machine taps, now going over to but these are horrendously expensive. M3 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Titex-Plus-M3...652?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item5ad03c49ec
They do cut good and quick in machine or by hand, therefore cost effective and paid for itself within a week on time saved.

Many decent HSS will keep locking up lubed or not especially with M2, M3,M4 9BA and you can give it any.

Absolutely no idea on current off the shelf tap and die sets, toughy.

 

[knoba]

Get the best set you can afford! The most expensive stuff is not always the best, but the cheapest is invariably the worst and can cause more headaches than they solve.

For general threading I have these two snap-on sets:

TDM117A - Set, Tap and Die, Metric, 41 pcs. (3mm to 12mm, Adjustable dies)

TDM99117B - Set, Tap and Die, Metric, 25 pcs. (14mm to 24mm)

They are good quality and the tap & die holders are incredibly comfortable to use (v. important). The handles don't unscrew while using them. They don't loose their hold, or die trim, on the cutters while making threads! These kits contain the most common sizes in different pitches. The smaller set even includes an M7 tap just for neighbours who have Lambretta troubles. (who knew? ) It doesn't show it on the website, but the dies have a bi-hex outer profile that can also be used with a bi-hex socket set for hard to access places.

If it hadn't have been Snap-on I would have (hands down) bought from Dormers catalogue.

For hand threading stainless steel I bought a dedicated customised spiral point & spiral flute HSS (EV3) set with a steam oxide finish for better lubricant retention from OSG. Unbelievably good!

Don't forget, if going to a manufacturer, one can also phone up their customer services to ask for advice. If they're any good at what they do they will be very helpful and knowledgeable.

Unfortunately it doesn't stop with just taps & dies, drill bits can be just as important. Even for standard size threads, the drill bit sizes would, ideally, be chosen in point sizes to match the taps being used. In the real world, however, one just has to go carefully and either accept the compromise or buy a dedicated drill index.

Here's a good bit of info on taps & dies that should help you decide.

HTH


(Hey Jugs! )