Small project turned a bit of a nightmare

[Smallfry]

I did several body cut jobs in the late seventies early eighties. None of them were high strength steel though, but if you are keeping the car for yourself, thats what I would do.

Other aspect of these new cars is insurance. I would check if I were you. It may well be uninsurable. Which makes it worthless, except for parts

 

[tinker jim]

Can you not use mig braze to repair uhss panels.i was under the impression it's doable if you keep the welding temps down.
I once helped pull a front end straight with a dozer hard work but very satisfying when you get the pull right and the car starts taking shape.

 

[CompoSimmonite]

IMO get a body shop to do the structural aspect leaving the outer panels, fitting up other parts and paintwork for yourself.

 

[Nesmy]

There is an update! After searching for hours I managed to find Kia Bodyshop Manual for this car! 300 pages long
I'm off work tomorrow so will measure up all the distances to see how far the whole unibody has been shifted...

 

[Nesmy]

Hey lads!

Don't know if anybody will read this but I suppose I will keep this as a journal to remind myself not to do it again...

Some good news. Measured most of the points on the unibody I could and all of the ones I checked are within factory tolerance!

I also took off front subframe and there doesn't seem to be any shift either. I would expect it to spring into it's new (bent) shape after removing the bolts holding the subframe to the chassis legs but that didn't happen. Front measurements are bang on as well.

The only measurement that was off was front offside top door hinge and it's obviously because it bent inwards during the impact. Otherwise all good.

Refreshing to see some good news at last.

 

[indy4x]

Pretty sure most of us are reading your thread, the posts are getting quite a few likes

I certainly am reading them

With regard to the dozer, would there be any bodyshops near you that could pull it all for you?

Many years ago I bought a write off Audi Coupe, it looked like it got hit from behind and shoved into the car in front

Front was easy but the rear was pretty bad. I attempted to pull the rear straight with the dozer and got the boot floor fairly close to where if should be but was maxing out the dozer

There was nothing structural at the back of the boot floor so made a fillet that went from zero to about 20mm across the width of the floor to attach it to the replacement rear panel

 

[Nesmy]

Was that Audi Coupe driving in a straight line after that? I suppose if it was a straight on collision into the back it would've been.

What's the most a dozer can pull before it maxes out? I spoke with a couple I know of people and could get a lend of one for a couple of days.

Good a stick of truth (bodyshop measuring system) sent to me and that way I can easily check all of measurement with less hassle than now. Will post once it arrives.

Some hope still left. Glad to hear there is some folk lurking in the thread.

 

[indy4x]

Drove spot on, there was nothing structural in the boot and all the suspension mounts were forward of the rear axle which was unaffected

The impact just stoved the tailgate, rear panel and boot floor and similar on the front where is got shoved into another car

It was one of the last B2 models so made in 1988, I bought it in 1994

This model



Always wanted a quattro, just never had the money

 

[Screwdriver]

Worth having a look for Arthur Tussic (sp?) on YouTube. He has a vast catalogue of straightening bent chassis and car bits using a selection of wedges and powerful winches. I'll see if I can find him...

This is he: https://www.youtube.com/@tussik01

 

[jo1010]

Difficult to tell from the photos alone , but those A pillar creases are not coming out with a dozer without heating the steel to oblivion - I'd be thinking about sectioning the area with a replacement part from another vehicle. Yes it's boron steel but there are techniques to minimise heat when welding it (that's how the factory join the boron steel to the hss steel in the first place - if you search in Reddit this has come up a lot of times).
But even with sectioning I think you'll still need the shell chained to a bench (car o liner type) to pull surrounding areas - the original blackhawk dozer used to pull against sill clamps - but there are no pinch welds to clamp to on this shell?
Drilling through boron spot welds is also a massive pain - Reddit again has real life thoughts on this.
All certainly doable though - it's the modern materials that make the job a real pita

 

[Screwdriver]

Difficult to tell from the photos alone , but those A pillar creases are not coming out with a dozer without heating the steel to oblivion - I'd be thinking about sectioning the area with a replacement part from another vehicle. Yes it's boron steel but there are techniques to minimise heat when welding it (that's how the factory join the boron steel to the hss steel in the first place - if you search in Reddit this has come up a lot of times).
But even with sectioning I think you'll still need the shell chained to a bench (car o liner type) to pull surrounding areas - the original blackhawk dozer used to pull against sill clamps - but there are no pinch welds to clamp to on this shell?
Drilling through boron spot welds is also a massive pain - Reddit again has real life thoughts on this.
All certainly doable though - it's the modern materials that make the job a real pita

A quick scan of the YouTube chap above and the first hit was indeed a cut and shut where he replaces the entire door strut assembly!

 

[Nesmy]

Hey,

Thanks for the ongoing advice. I already got a quarter panel - had to go all the way to Newry to pick it up. Although spent my weekend over in NI - quite a charming little place.

 

[Screwdriver]

Exciting!

 

[fizzy]

Now I know why I love working on Landrovers

 

[Nesmy]

Couple of pictures of me keeping track of the spaghetti of pipes, coolant lines, heat exchanger lines, motor coolant lines, heat pump lines, air conditioning lines, and some more pipes lines and a handful more lines... All run by lots of electric pumps with multiple connectors. No wonder it takes 20 litres of antifreeze and almost 1kg of refrigerant to fill it up...

 

[Nesmy]

An update on the progress...

Need a bit of advice. Should I start sectioning the damaged area as per body manual and one all bent stuff is removed try to pull it back so it's bang on straight? Then section the quarter panel I bought and go in the reverse order?

Any advice on mig welding this thing? A friend of mine can lend me a mig welder.

 

[northwest]

Any advice on mig welding this thing? A friend of mine can lend me a mig welder.

Not all Mig welders are equal. Some will tackle thin sheet like this with ease, others not so much.

 

[jo1010]

I'd normally start by heavy pulling (before doing any cutting) in the exact opposite direction to the original accidental force. Clamping onto the metal that you're gonna cut out anyway - it will rip that metal and deform it but it doesn't matter. That toeboard area has taken a lot of the impact and the creases probably won't move much even with 40 tons pulling so you might have to do some single cuts in existing panels to allow the most critical individual panels to move to where you need them (windscreen aperture? B pillar?).
Once you cut out your big A pillar section pulling anything on the remaining body will be difficult (bc the metal that's clamped may get damaged and need more repair) but you may have to do it anyway if things haven't moved enough on the first pulls. Gas axe torch heating of the crumpled zones will help during the pulls - of course that will damage the strength of the boron steel but it may allow the surrounding steel to return to pre accident positions.
Once you've cut out the big section you've got lots of scrap to practice your plug welds and how to keep temperatures low enough to not destroy the boron steel strength. Do some weld tests on those practice welds to see how they hold up under stress - the factory seem to do zillions of closely spaced spot welds on those panels so the aim is to distribute heat around the weld area and let the metal cool between individual welds. Welding power depends how thin the metal is. I like to have a 20 amp machine handy but you might manage plug welds with the more common 30 amp. Try it and see

 

[northwest]

I'd normally start by heavy pulling (before doing any cutting) in the exact opposite direction to the original accidental force. Clamping onto the metal that you're gonna cut out anyway - it will rip that metal and deform it but it doesn't matter. That toeboard area has taken a lot of the impact and the creases probably won't move much even with 40 tons pulling so you might have to do some single cuts in existing panels to allow the most critical individual panels to move to where you need them (windscreen aperture? B pillar?).
Once you cut out your big A pillar section pulling anything on the remaining body will be difficult (bc the metal that's clamped may get damaged and need more repair) but you may have to do it anyway if things haven't moved enough on the first pulls. Gas axe torch heating of the crumpled zones will help during the pulls - of course that will damage the strength of the boron steel but it may allow the surrounding steel to return to pre accident positions.
Once you've cut out the big section you've got lots of scrap to practice your plug welds and how to keep temperatures low enough to not destroy the boron steel strength. Do some weld tests on those practice welds to see how they hold up under stress - the factory seem to do zillions of closely spaced spot welds on those panels so the aim is to distribute heat around the weld area and let the metal cool between individual welds. Welding power depends how thin the metal is. I like to have a 20 amp machine handy but you might manage plug welds with the more common 30 amp. Try it and see

This is very sound advice from someone who clearly has had experience of this type of work before. One thing you might consider is mitigating some of the heat, sometimes a damp rag wrapped around the area is enough, there are compounds available you can use to prevent heat spread, as a last resort you can bolt alloy heat sinks onto the part you are heating up so the heat doesn't spread. Personally I would spend some time researching this boron steel and getting a better understanding of it and it's characteristics and why and how it is incorporated into the structure.

 

[Nesmy]

I'd normally start by heavy pulling (before doing any cutting) in the exact opposite direction to the original accidental force. Clamping onto the metal that you're gonna cut out anyway - it will rip that metal and deform it but it doesn't matter. That toeboard area has taken a lot of the impact and the creases probably won't move much even with 40 tons pulling so you might have to do some single cuts in existing panels to allow the most critical individual panels to move to where you need them (windscreen aperture? B pillar?).
Once you cut out your big A pillar section pulling anything on the remaining body will be difficult (bc the metal that's clamped may get damaged and need more repair) but you may have to do it anyway if things haven't moved enough on the first pulls. Gas axe torch heating of the crumpled zones will help during the pulls - of course that will damage the strength of the boron steel but it may allow the surrounding steel to return to pre accident positions.
Once you've cut out the big section you've got lots of scrap to practice your plug welds and how to keep temperatures low enough to not destroy the boron steel strength. Do some weld tests on those practice welds to see how they hold up under stress - the factory seem to do zillions of closely spaced spot welds on those panels so the aim is to distribute heat around the weld area and let the metal cool between individual welds. Welding power depends how thin the metal is. I like to have a 20 amp machine handy but you might manage plug welds with the more common 30 amp. Try it and see

What a response! You can tell straight away you have been around the block.
How much force can realistically a dozer apply? You've mentioned 40 tons but I didn't think they would be that powerful.

When you say single cuts in existing panels could you elaborate on what you mean by it?

If I am to follow the body manual there will be lots of spot welds, some butt welds and a fair amount of structural adhesive.

What is the best tool to measure up the body? I got a tracking gauge but not sure how accurate it is.

Once I get my hands onto MIG welder I will be able to tell whether it's 20 or 30 amps.

The additional degree of difficulty is within the sill there is a square partially hollow aluminium beam - I suspect welding aluminium might be difficult.

Thanks for all the advice!