SIP Topmig Super 196 no wire feed, of course!

[the snooper]

A realy quick and simple test of the relay would be to join the mains voltage wires of the relay together then turn it on

 

[the snooper]

He said the relay clicks...

Yes I know but that doesn't test it's switching ability where as joinng the mains side together would either power up the welder or it would remain dead showing a further fault

 

[Peter Relton]

OTEeadog, post: 770937, member: 23335"]There's enough to wake you up or, alternatively, put you to sleep, if you're unlucky


Two things to check; 1) there are volts at the gas valve terminals; 2) disconnect the gas valve and check continuity. No volts, there's a cabling or connector issue. No continuity, you've an open-circuit solenoid in the valve - new valve needed.[/QUOTE]
I

Ill

Dumb question, but I take it you're aware that this welder has been modified?

The transformer and relay on the floor are not standard - I know a couple of people have mentioned gas solenoids but is that definitely what it is?
I'd have assumed that the relay and tranny are for the wirefeed. Have you checked that you're definitely getting ~15V AC from the bottom connections of the transformer (it should be permanetly lit, I'd have thought)?


Edit: crossed with the snooper's post

I put the new transformer in as the old one fell apart! I will check the relay. I didnt know it wasnt standard

 

[Peter Relton]

Can you post a pic of underside of pcb (makes it easier to say where to meter).
Can you confirm the pcb has the number CSX E01 on the under side ?
Think you will find this is the diagram for machine
And welcome BTW

Here are the pics of the PCB. I hope it helps. Seems there is also some sign of trouble on the relay. See post below.

 

[the snooper]

There is quite possibly nothing wrong with the pcb at all it could all be down to the relay

 

[Peter Relton]

There should be a relay, the only question is whether the one there is original or a replacement.

If it works, it doesn't matter. If it's broken, it doesn't matter

I have inserted some pics of the relay. Seems there might be some burn marks on the inside. See what you think. Is this relay a standard piece of kit? I know now that it isn't the original. Anyway can I test it off the machine?

 

[Peter Relton]

Or, connect your meter on dc to the torch tip and the ground clamp then pull the trigger - first check and you don't need to delve inside for it.

I did this the other day and didn't get anything. Can't remeber whether I was on AC or DC though as I was rushing. Dumb, I know! I forgot to add the the original post that the cooling fan spins merrily away.

 

[the snooper]

Connect the relay back up put low voltage wires back on the coil and swap the other 2 wires to the spare contacts as they won't be burnt as they wasnt used

 

[Peter Relton]

Connect the relay back up put low voltage wires back on the coil and swap the other 2 wires to the spare contacts as they won't be burnt as they wasnt used

That makes sense. I wasn't sure if the other contacts were for other purposes or voltages! I will give it a go as soon as I can. Does it look burnt to you?

 

[the snooper]

That makes sense. I wasn't sure if the other contacts were for other purposes or voltages! I will give it a go as soon as I can. Does it look burnt to you?

Yes it has scorched the case I've had them fail the same way

 

[Peter Relton]

Yes it has scorched the case I've had them fail the same way

I'll pop it back as soon as I can, which won't be today and get back to you with the results. Is it worth buying another even if it works?

 

[the snooper]

I'll pop it back as soon as I can, which won't be today and get back to you with the results. Is it worth buying another even if it works?

I would replace it with one that can handle at least 30 amps at 230v

 

[Peter Relton]

If it works using another pair of n/o contacts then there's no point replacing it until it fails again - unless you need an excuse to spend the money?

Fair enough! I like your style.

 

[the snooper]

I would replace it with one that can handle at least 30 amps at 230v

That relay is originally made to plug into a socket, if you want reliability, replace it

 

[the snooper]

The one in there is rated for 30A @ 300v...

Yeah I know max rating is 30 amp it would be better to go bigger to cope with the inrush current

 

[Peter Relton]

Just looked up the specs for it, you can't use the other pair of contacts unless you want the trigger to work as an off switch

So what do you recommend? Happy to buy a new one, but I would like a make and serial number if poss? I have a very good electrical shop near me but don't mind going online.

 

[Peter Relton]

Any relay with a 12v coil and minimum of 30A@230v switching will be fine.

Getting a bigger one would be fine - just don't go mad getting something massive or tge coil might overload the little transformer/pcb.

Fine, I will pop into the local lx shop on Monday. Thanks for that.

 

[Seadog]

If you buy one with two sets of contacts you could wire them in parallel and double the switching capacity.

 

[Peter Relton]

Before you buy a new one, connect the wires together (as detailed before) to check the rest of the machine.

Good advice. I will try that first.

Cheers.

 

[Peter Relton]

Just looked up the specs for it, you can't use the other pair of contacts unless you want the trigger to work as an off switch

Just to check, following on from this post, if I re-plug the relay using the good contacts the, whole thing should turn on with the on/off switch. I should see the motor turn and there should be voltage across the torch and earth lead? If I have re-connected the torch trigger, it will stop the motor. I am happy to do this to check the other components but I just wanted to confirm what to expect when I turn it on.

Cheers,
Peter