SIP Topmig Super 196 no wire feed, of course!

[Peter Relton]

Hi all,

I am new to the forum even though I have read posts in the past. I bought the Topmig 196 on ebay. It was listed as not working so I knew what I was getting into. When I collected it, the guy said the small transformer had gone. I replaced it but of course it didn't work. I get clicking at the relay and I have had the motor off and it works. The weld time timer works as when I hold the trigger down you can hear the relay (I think) trip out after 6 seconds. The PCB appears to be fine as I see no obvious signs of burning.

I am reasonably competent with electrics, but I really don't want to be sticking my hand inside when it's on as I am not sure what's live and what isn't!! Can anybody give me a few simple tests to run to see where the problem might lie. I have attached some photos. ignore the bare wires, they are for the motor and have been reattached and put back together.

I hope the photos help. I can post more quite easily if necessary.

Cheers!

 

[mike 109444]

Can you post a pic of underside of pcb (makes it easier to say where to meter).
Can you confirm the pcb has the number CSX E01 on the under side ?
Think you will find this is the diagram for machine
And welcome BTW

 

[the snooper]

As you can hear the relay click I would start there, make sure the relay contacts are making a connection

 

[mike 109444]

Looking at the wires on the green pcb plug it may be that they have been connected up wrong. If you follow the diagram then from the (small) transformer the 0 an 15 lines go to pins 3 and 4 of the green plug but does not seam to be so on your plug ?? Not sure if this is the case as it is difficult to see for sure.
Also the wire on pin 2 (white then tape then blue ) seams not to be connected at the other end looking at your last pic ????

 

[Peter Relton]

Can you post a pic of underside of pcb (makes it easier to say where to meter).
Can you confirm the pcb has the number CSX E01 on the under side ?
Think you will find this is the diagram for machine
And welcome BTW

I will take a pic later today and confirm the number. Thanks

 

[the snooper]

T

Looking at the wires on the green pcb plug it may be that they have been connected up wrong. If you follow the diagram then from the (small) transformer the 0 an 15 lines go to pins 3 and 4 of the green plug but does not seam to be so on your plug ?? Not sure if this is the case as it is difficult to see for sure.
Also the wire on pin 2 (white then tape then blue ) seams not to be connected at the other end looking at your last pic ????

Those green plugs will only fit 1 way, he stated in last 2 lines of first post ignore bare wires they are from the motor

 

[Peter Relton]

E="mike 109444, post: 770889, member: 10787"]Looking at the wires on the green pcb plug it may be that they have been connected up wrong. If you follow the diagram then from the (small) transformer the 0 an 15 lines go to pins 3 and 4 of the green plug but does not seam to be so on your plug ?? Not sure if this is the case as it is difficult to see for sure.
Also the wire on pin 2 (white then tape then blue ) seams not to be connected at the other end looking at your last pic ????[/QUOTE

Sorry, the pics are confusing because I took them when the motorbwas disconnected.

 

[Peter Relton]

As has been said, check that relay...

Does the gas valve work? Is there any output from the main transformer?

I put my finger on the gas valve whilst operating the trigger. I couldn't feel or hear a click, only the clicking of the main relay. I don't know how to test for power from the main transformer. I have a good voltmeter but I am a bit nervous of getting a belt due to touching something I shouldn't! Let me know a safe way and I will check.

 

[Seadog]

I put my finger on the gas valve whilst operating the trigger. I couldn't feel or hear a click, only the clicking of the main relay. I don't know how to test for power from the main transformer. I have a good voltmeter but I am a bit nervous of getting a belt due to touching something I shouldn't! Let me know a safe way and I will check.

Peter, the safest way if you're unsure of voltages is to connect the meter with the unit unplugged and then apply power to it. It'll be on the ac range on your meter.

 

[Peter Relton]

Peter, the safest way if you're unsure of voltages is to connect the meter with the unit unplugged and then apply power to it. It'll be on the ac range on your meter.

Ok. I will need to get some croc clips. Where is it best to attach the meter? I am usually comfortable with elex but there is a lot of power in there and I want to be risk free.

 

[Peter Relton]

GreatE="pdg, post: 770921, member: 19491"]Or, connect your meter on dc to the torch tip and the ground clamp then pull the trigger - first check and you don't need to delve inside for it.[/QUOTE]
Great. I will try later today and post back.

Cheers, Peter

 

[Seadog]

Also, not wishing to try and instill overconfidence or anything, but...

There isn't really 'a lot of power' in there. There is 'only' 230v present up to the primary of the transformers (unless there's a huge fault).

There are risks, if you want risk-free you need a different hobby

There's enough to wake you up or, alternatively, put you to sleep, if you're unlucky


Two things to check; 1) there are volts at the gas valve terminals; 2) disconnect the gas valve and check continuity. No volts, there's a cabling or connector issue. No continuity, you've an open-circuit solenoid in the valve - new valve needed.

 

[Peter Relton]

Also, not wishing to try and instill overconfidence or anything, but...

There isn't really 'a lot of power' in there. There is 'only' 230v present up to the primary of the transformers (unless there's a huge fault).

There are risks, if you want risk-free you need a different hobby

Thanks! I like the hobby but risks should be kept to a minimum!

 

[the snooper]

There's enough to wake you up or, alternatively, put you to sleep, if you're unlucky


Two things to check; 1) there are volts at the gas valve terminals; 2) disconnect the gas valve and check continuity. No volts, there's a cabling or connector issue. No continuity, you've an open-circuit solenoid in the valve - new valve needed.

It's not just the gas valve not working there is no wire feed either which suggests no power from the welding transformer

 

[skotl]

Dumb question, but I take it you're aware that this welder has been modified?

The transformer and relay on the floor are not standard - I know a couple of people have mentioned gas solenoids but is that definitely what it is?
I'd have assumed that the relay and tranny are for the wirefeed. Have you checked that you're definitely getting ~15V AC from the bottom connections of the transformer (it should be permanetly lit, I'd have thought)?


Edit: crossed with the snooper's post

 

[the snooper]

To check the relay you need to test that there us mains power going into and out of the switch side of the relay, they are known for the contacts burning out leaving the welder dead abd as you can hear it clicking there is a very good chance it's the relay at fault

 

[the snooper]

Dumb question, but I take it you're aware that this welder has been modified?

The transformer and relay on the floor are not standard - I know a couple of people have mentioned gas solenoids but is that definitely what it is?
I'd have assumed that the relay and tranny are for the wirefeed. Have you checked that you're definitely getting ~15V AC from the bottom connections of the transformer (it should be permanetly lit, I'd have thought)?


Edit: crossed with the snooper's post

It may be standard the pcb never had a transformer or relay fitted

 

[skotl]

It may be standard the pcb never had a transformer or relay fitted

Indeed - the lack of a relay on that board did confuse me, but then...

The relay on the floor is the 'contactor' for the main transformer, the little transformer on the floor is to operate the control circuit and that relay.

The gas valve will be up near the top cover, don't think it's visible in any of the pics.

...even for SIP, the placement of the relay and transformer seems very haphazard so I'd still think they are aftermarket additions (possibly replacements).

 

[the snooper]

Indeed - the lack of a relay on that board did confuse me, but then...



...even for SIP, the placement of the relay and transformer seems very haphazard so I'd still think they are aftermarket additions (possibly replacements).

They could well be new to the machine but it hasn't had the wire feed mod, my money is on the relay

 

[skotl]

They could well be new to the machine but it hasn't had the wire feed mod, my money is on the relay

I agree