Sandringham 6x6

[sako243]

Try driving any 70's designed, drum braked car in a spirited fashion, the "sponge" under the right foot was not a nice feeling.

Only ever driven Land Rovers with drum brakes but towed plenty with them and never had an issue with spongy brakes if they're well sorted. Only time I've ever had issues is when fluid starts to leak out.

The L322 is a bit of a sod despite the quite substantial engine braking for an auto it's also got a boot load of torque. When @8ob came down on flat ground or slight downhills I found with no accelerator applied it had enough torque at idle to simply go up through the gears until it was doing about 40mph. If you flick it into manual mode it eventually decides you've forgotten or done it by accident so re-engages automatic mode.

 

[8ob]

You have been busy Ed What happened to the original plan of " I need to weld a patch on the 6x6"

Bob

 

[sako243]

You have been busy Ed What happened to the original plan of " I need to weld a patch on the 6x6"

Bob

There's plenty of quotes to quote but I know what my life is like these days and if I didn't do it properly now then it won't get done. All the welding was on the underside so sod welding upside down given it's a dozen bolts to remove everything.

Also like @northwest said the other day I'm beginning to feel like him, if I didn't have bad luck I wouldn't have any luck at all. It's a bit of a time crunch now with Scotland and me being away for almost a week before we go. Hopefully once this is reassembled and running then it'll be a reliable daily , at least one with a solid foundation. It won't be finished but at least the chassis, brakes and engine should be pretty solid.

 

[Robotstar5]

...... Hopefully once this is reassembled and running then it'll be a reliable daily , at least one with a solid foundation. It won't be finished but at least the chassis, brakes and engine should be pretty solid.

At least it will be driveable, I remember the delivery drivers who used to take "chassis only" cars from Land Rover (pre-JLR days) to coach builders, they wore waterproofs, crash helmet and goggles and sat on a wooden box with a temporary lightboard at the back.

 

[Wildefalcon]

Try driving any 70's designed, drum braked car in a spirited fashion, the "sponge" under the right foot was not a nice feeling.

Never had an issue with the twin leading shoes, servo assisted brakes. So long as you drive within the capabilities of the vehicle they are more than adequate.

Once locked up the Landrover, and fully loaded flat bed trailer, when an idiot jammed on in front of me.

 

[reb78]

Never had an issue with the twin leading shoes, servo assisted brakes. So long as you drive within the capabilities of the vehicle they are more than adequate.

Once locked up the Landrover, and fully loaded flat bed trailer, when an idiot jammed on in front of me.

Agree. My 110 has drums on the rear and as others have said, as long as they are kept adjusted and clean they work perfectly. People get very excited about converting rear drums to discs, I just can't see the point.

 

[minimutly]

Agree. My 110 has drums on the rear and as others have said, as long as they are kept adjusted and clean they work perfectly. People get very excited about converting rear drums to discs, I just can't see the point.

There we are then, years of safety development wasted.
Every time I drive down the hill to Pendine I'm reminded of the two pikeys that tragically died there when the front drums on their lorry overheated, they went through the wall and stopped nose down on the beach, the load of hot tarmac they had on squashed and covered them...

 

[Wildefalcon]

Very sad. Not familiar with the individual circumstances.

Drum brakes and mountainous regions are difficult. The advice I received when starting driving was to use engine braking and gears for down hill when towing. Even today I see road signs suggesting that drivers should select low gears for steep hills.

 

[Farside]

Most pointless conversion I saw was an additional brake booster to a drum brake setup.
It's not like he'd fitted bigger drums and shoes, no, these were the standard ones.
A case of not knowing enough.

 

[reb78]

There we are then, years of safety development wasted.
Every time I drive down the hill to Pendine I'm reminded of the two pikeys that tragically died there when the front drums on their lorry overheated, they went through the wall and stopped nose down on the beach, the load of hot tarmac they had on squashed and covered them...

We can all think of tragic examples of things gone wrong. Like the chap who ended up in prison 20 years ago because his children were in a land rover he had adapted the brakes on that was involved in an accident.

I'm sure discs are better but in 250k miles in my 110 some of which includes trips in the Alps I, personally, have never had an issue with my brakes. I have discs on the front (factory) and they do the bulk of the work. My comment was more that I won't be farting around with any of the heath robinson disc conversions with a bit from here and a bit from there on my land rover. Not will I be changing the axle when my current setup works fine for me.

Anyway. This is probably spoiling Eds thread. So I'm out now.

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

There we are then, years of safety development wasted.
Every time I drive down the hill to Pendine I'm reminded of the two pikeys that tragically died there when the front drums on their lorry overheated, they went through the wall and stopped nose down on the beach, the load of hot tarmac they had on squashed and covered them...

The big issue (as you rightly identify) with drums is heat management / brake fade, and maintenance.

Disks are better for most users, and with a sharper bite, and better cooling, have clear advantages in certain applications.

Drums require the driver to be aware of their limitations, and regular adjustment, but can size-for-size offer substantially greater breaking force.


I have debated fitting rear disks to the Hilux, but am not actually confident that it would be much of a safety upgrade, it's easy enough as it is for the back end to go out if driven in too "spirited" a way when unloaded, and making the back brakes come on more sharply would exacerbate that even with ABS.

If I towed trailers up and down long hills every day, it would be a much more clear cut improvement, but I don't.

In that vein, I kinda agree with this:

People get very excited about converting rear drums to discs, I just can't see the point.

If it's purely a case of changing the brakes, I'm not sure it's a clear cut improvement, because without adjusting other factors that govern the overall dynamics of the vehicle, it's not guaranteed to improve handling when it matters most.

 

[sako243]

Also bear in mind that in this particular instance all the drums are as big as was available and there's 6 of them so energy to be dissipated is spread across all of them.

By far and away the biggest thing to remember is that this thing (with the V8 in) despite having an extra axle weighs under 1.7t - that's Ford Mondeo territory.

 

[sako243]

Spot the difference...

The chassis brake lines were in good nick and I managed to undo those so can be reused and I've managed to undo (somewhat destructively) all the fittings into the drums themselves. Will need to make the cross axle lines and get some new flexi for the rear axles. I might see if I can sort those tonight as I'm off tomorrow for a friend's stag do.

At least I had some practice fixing the Range Rovers blown brake line this morning. Flaring steel lines isn't fun but I did manage it.

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

Spot the difference...

You really took Graham Chapman's design philosophy to heart?

 

[northwest]

Very sad. Not familiar with the individual circumstances.

Drum brakes and mountainous regions are difficult. The advice I received when starting driving was to use engine braking and gears for down hill when towing. Even today I see road signs suggesting that drivers should select low gears for steep hills.

This is absolutely not taught any more. If I am following a car downhill you can guarantee nine times out of ten the car in front will ride the brakes all the way down it is an absolute given they will if the conditions are poor and it is drizzle or foggy!

 

[Mick Annick]

I’ve been flagged down a few times by other drivers when out in the Morgan - ‘your brake lights aren’t working mate’; yes they are, but a Rover V8 and the right gear means I don’t need to use the brakes much. Front discs and pads are original - 70k miles / 25 years, rear shoes only replaced due to leaking cylinders.

 

[Farside]

I'm sure you could fit a nice little supercharger in there.

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

This is absolutely not taught any more.

This is factually the case, most driving instructors teach students to remain in the highest gear possible, and then brake as required.

Reason being that some examiners interpret going into a low gear and pushing the revs up as being a fault under the "control-gears" criteria on the test, or not applying the brake whilst slowing down under "Control-Braking" "Control-precautions", and will mark down or fail people for it.

Given that kind of capriciousness and inconsistency contend with from examiners, and DVSA refusing to allow tests to be recorded... I hesitate to blame instructors, they're ultimately paid to get students to pass a test.

Ultimately we shouldn't grumble as our driving standards are some of the highest in the world, but it would be nice if (car) driving examiners were a bit more professional and consistent.

The difference in professionalism between the examiner for my Car Test, and my Trailer Test (done by HGV examiners) was night and day.

If I am following a car downhill you can guarantee nine times out of ten the car in front will ride the brakes all the way down it is an absolute given they will if the conditions are poor and it is drizzle or foggy!

I notice *a lot* of the time when I am driving in the peak or over snake, that people will be breaking into corners and still pulling away from me not braking behind them.

I have concluded that they are probably doing it to feel like they're doing something, but aren't actually applying meaningful force to the brake pedal, and but are staying in a higher gear than ideal for the target speed.



Same kind of drivers who will be all over the brakes right through a tight corner, rather than pro-actively shedding speed in advance...

Helped a young lad in a BMW 1 Series get his car back on the road, after he lost control doing just that in the pouring rain, going round the 3rd sharp corner coming down Snake:

He was very lucky to somehow pass between the chevron signs...

But much luckier that it didn't happen on the previous corner, where he'd have been through the wall, and in the gully needing a lot more rescuing than I could accomplish with tow rope and some calming words.

 

[Robotstar5]

This is absolutely not taught any more. If I am following a car downhill you can guarantee nine times out of ten the car in front will ride the brakes all the way down it is an absolute given they will if the conditions are poor and it is drizzle or foggy!

I've always used engine braking where I can, loved my manual diesel Freelander for that, I now have a petrol auto with almost no engine braking so have to use the brakes, I did try putting it manually into 1st on a steep hill but it just over revved the engine.
The only time I had to drive differently was doing St. John ambulance driving course where it was "gears to go, brakes to slow", brake down to the right speed for a corner then select the correct gear.

 

[reb78]

I’ve been flagged down a few times by other drivers when out in the Morgan - ‘your brake lights aren’t working mate’; yes they are, but a Rover V8 and the right gear means I don’t need to use the brakes much. Front discs and pads are original - 70k miles / 25 years, rear shoes only replaced due to leaking cylinders.

Haha. I had that from someone while I was towing the horses in their trailer with the 110. Lights were absolutely fine. I don't need the brakes much other than actually stopping!