Sandrail Engine swap

  1. CompoSimmonite Member

    Messages:
    4,083
    Location:
    Werrington, Stoke-on-Trent
    Other than the fact you already have one why are you insisting on using the MX5 engine when a VW lump could be fitted with off the shelf adapter kits ? By the time you have paid for somebody to machine up the adapter parts surely a Golf engine is going to work out far cheaper when you take into account what you can get by selling the MX5 parts.
    V5 lump could be interesting conversion :)
     
  2. Wightsparks

    Wightsparks Forum Supporter

    Messages:
    883
    Location:
    Wight
    "off the shelf adapter kits" :dontknow: The only such animal in the UK is to fit a Subaru engine. Don't expect change from £1000.
    In the US there are others, don't expect change from $1500 before shipping, customs and VAT.

    Besides - as you mentioned, I already have an MX5 engine, it is the same weight as a VW, and I have a VW Bus gearbox - it is not difficult just needs some thought. The shaft modifications sketched above cost me £8 for the sleeve and I got a spare shaft this morning off a mate. It will be £150 to have the plates laser cut. All I need now is a 30mm MS bush machining up on a lathe.. Anyone ?
     
  3. dannyp Member

    my lathe is on the IOW
     
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  4. Wightsparks

    Wightsparks Forum Supporter

    Messages:
    883
    Location:
    Wight
    Finally some progress! After over a month of research and head scratching I think I've cracked it.
    Laser cut Ali plates are ordered, I know how to lengthen the shaft and have all the parts, I have a plan for using the MX5 intermediate bearing and oil seal on the VW shaft. I know how to attach the chopped MX5 bell housing to the plates - bolted up the test MDF plate and it all fits. :D

    [​IMG]

    Next up engine mounts, finish the exhaust then cooling and intake. I'll do the shaft and find a 215mm VW clutch plate when I pull it out for final weld up and paint.
     
  5. Wightsparks

    Wightsparks Forum Supporter

    Messages:
    883
    Location:
    Wight
    Ok so it's not that exciting but after a month of little garage time I am chuffed to be getting on!

    Now I have the MDF dummy plate in I can move on to the Engine mounts and side braces

    2018-03-17 15.41.59.jpg

    And exhaust mounts - that I am going to change a bit..
    If you look carefully you can see the difference in the engine mounting caused by the engine being 15mm to the right to accommodate the offset gearbox shaft.

    2018-03-17 23.55.27.jpg

    Laser cut adapter plates are on the way as is a 215mm VW clutch plate, and Richard turned the MX5 shaft into a small bush that I will mount onto the VW shaft so I can use the MX5 intermediate bearing and oil seal.
     
  6. Wightsparks

    Wightsparks Forum Supporter

    Messages:
    883
    Location:
    Wight
    Plates are in, got 2 x 10mm in the end. £105

    2018-03-20 21.11.55.jpg


    New VW clutch plate is in but is 9mm thick (squashed), new MX5 plate is apparently 8mm (I assume squashed too) - lets hope there is some Japanese tolerance or it will be going but not stopping...:)

    New pilot bearing is in - ahh the price of knowledge - "MX5 Mk2.5, 1.8 Pilot bearing -£8" Vs "SKF bearing abc12345 - £2"

    Gave up swearing at the exhausts Vs engine mount and am going to arrange differently..

    Yes ,yes actual work coming soon :welder:
     
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  7. dannyp Member

    on the subaru engine conversions you just shim the pressure plate off the flywheel
     
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  8. Wightsparks

    Wightsparks Forum Supporter

    Messages:
    883
    Location:
    Wight
    :doh: Of course you would!
    Thanks again Danny :thumbup:
     
  9. Wightsparks

    Wightsparks Forum Supporter

    Messages:
    883
    Location:
    Wight
    Lots of time in the garage but not much to show!

    Change of mind on the exhausts - now supported the cans off the engine.
    2018-03-22 23.09.44.jpg

    Which means brackets! These were interesting to make.

    2018-03-22 23.09.57.jpg


    2018-03-24 15.24.58.jpg

    Once these are in I can finish off the exhaust, which will mean cutting out the bar with the seatbelt mounts (of course!) So need to re-do those.
     
  10. Wightsparks

    Wightsparks Forum Supporter

    Messages:
    883
    Location:
    Wight
    Exhaust done. This way I can mount the whole lot to the engine.

    2018-03-25 18.19.06.jpg

    Next up is cooling. Bought a used Alloy rad from a Lexus that has a built in coolant/expansion tank and twin fans so that should make plumbing easier.
     
  11. Wightsparks

    Wightsparks Forum Supporter

    Messages:
    883
    Location:
    Wight
    Neutral Switch Challenge

    Thinking ahead to the electrics. The ecu uses a N and (possibly) a clutch sensor/switch to control the idle when the engine is disengaged - the clutch switch also prevents starting in gear.
    Clutch switch should be easy enough to mount. But for N can only think of either a detent in the gear change shaft or possibly some sort of bar on it at 90degs that hits a microswitch.
    Ideas anyone?
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2018
  12. jpmillermatic

    jpmillermatic Member

    Messages:
    715
    USA-NY

    I have used both...the detent switch will work and mount in a tidy way. As long as it rolls out of the depression in the selector you should be fine.
    The micro switch will work too....and I think both are adjustable, or you can build adjustability into the mounts.


    JP
     
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  13. gaz_moose Member

    Messages:
    909
    Location:
    tamworth staffordshire
    I would just join the wires so it thinks its always in neutral and the clutch is pressed down. the ecu probably wont be to bothered about you driving it round like this. plus you may want to start it in gear one day. say if you snap your clutch pedal.


    its not far off what you do to bypass the inhibitor switch when swapping from auto to manual transmission.
     
  14. Ruffian Member

    Messages:
    1,476
    Location:
    Devon UK
    Put a start button in which also has switched relay which will "put it in neutral with the pedal down" for ease.
     
  15. Wightsparks

    Wightsparks Forum Supporter

    Messages:
    883
    Location:
    Wight
    Thanks JP the N sensor that screws into the GB is actually a detent switch so that may be the best solution with an adjustable bracket.

    Yep, bypassing the clutch switch is easy and after ahem.. years of driving, always starting with the clutch down it will not make any odds- but there seems to be a difference of opinion as to weather it is involved in idle control or not.

    I am assuming that if the N switch is needed, so would need to implement it.
     
  16. Wightsparks

    Wightsparks Forum Supporter

    Messages:
    883
    Location:
    Wight
    Further research, and a good study of the wiring diagram indicates that there are 2 clutch switches! - One is a clutch start-interlock switch - which I will bypass and there is a clutch switch that controls the idle and the cruise control switch off - which I need to keep for proper operation. I think the latter is a make on open switch that trips as soon as the clutch starts to move. It's 2 years since I stripped the MX-5 so a bit hazy on the details!
     
  17. Wightsparks

    Wightsparks Forum Supporter

    Messages:
    883
    Location:
    Wight
    In keeping with the Japanese theme we have a Lexus fan club

    2018-03-28 23.15.37.jpg
     
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  18. Wightsparks

    Wightsparks Forum Supporter

    Messages:
    883
    Location:
    Wight
    Oh dear. (or similar words)

    Stripped it all out last night to start the build proper. Came to make up the shaft extension only to find out that there is not enough space for the splined sleeve on the outside of the shaft for the distance I need as it fouls on the diff.:mad:

    Tried various configurations and experimented with welding two sleeves together which works ok but then I can't get it on as the diff is in the way - without welding the engagement is down to 13mm:dontknow:

    Fortunately there is a solution in the form of a longer shaft - unfortunately it is in the USA so going to be a few $$ to get it here.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2018
  19. Wightsparks

    Wightsparks Forum Supporter

    Messages:
    883
    Location:
    Wight
    Quiet a few dollars later and I acquired the aforementioned 323mm shaft. Prepared the plates and with only 1 minor error (that I know about!) I have it installed. Might not look like much but a lot of time and thought has gone into this!


    2018-04-14 23.17.57.jpg

    Now to hook up the engine to finalise and weld up the mounts before installing with clutch and flywheel.
     
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  20. Wightsparks

    Wightsparks Forum Supporter

    Messages:
    883
    Location:
    Wight
    Update..
    The engine is in and bolted up, new alt on, fully welded up the exhausts (and flanges so I can take it apart again), put the clutch on with 1.5mm spacers on the pressure plate - no pics as it looks pretty much like the dry fit two pages ago :laughing:.

    Now on to the wiring. - Fortunately I carefully labelled everything when I stripped the car - then a year later I carefully collected a small pile of labels that fell off..:doh:

    Anyway on to the wiring...

    2018-05-06 18.11.51.jpg

    Blue tape means "probably not needed".
    This is the engine, main and battery looms connected. I want to get it running, make sure the clutch/fuel/exhaust/cooling/gearbox all works - (which it probably won't first time) - before I start stripping anything out. This engine worked fine 2 years ago, so it should work now - if it doesn't one of those wires is wrong...:worms
     
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