Run 6010 whit a cheap inverter

  1. Memmeddu

    Memmeddu Member

    Messages:
    347
    Location:
    Italia Sardegna
    So i just bought an inverter welder last week ,i replaced the ground clamp but not the electrode holder yet
    Today I ran a 4mm 6010 citoflex ,results it starts pretty well but I can't run it properly
    It's like pulsed stick welding i think that the rod is to big for my welder
    Anyway it works and I will try whit a smaller one 3,25 or 2,5mm rod
    Have no idea of how much current needs so I used the 4mm citoflex whit DCEP and something like 170 Amps and I think that was or cold so the pulsed start and stops, or to hot because I had to give much electrode to the puddle and a pushing angle to not shut off the arc
    I used the whipping and pause technique
    Now I need some tips because don't seems an hardware problem but a my mistake and maybe also asked more than what can run my 250A welder
    The manual give not indication on which kind of electrodes can run or not
    A friend gave me the electrode for the test and i think it was simply to big for
    The travel speed seems to fast or not enough material transfer in some point of the bead .
    The question is what you think about running a smaller electrode now that we know that the welder can run a 4mm 6010 pretty bad (if I did good)?
    I want remember to you all that is the first time I use 6010 in all my life so maybe I am not able enough to manipulate this kind of rod properly
     
  2. zeppelin builder

    zeppelin builder Member

    Messages:
    939
    Location:
    peoples republic of scotland
    not all invertors will keep a 6010 running
    it takes a very steep amp / volt curve and a high ocv to run them reliably ,
    most cheap invertors have an average volt/amp curve (drooping ) suited to 6013
    and 7018 but dont have the ability to keep the arc from extinguishing using 6010

    6010 of very little use to a novice anyway
    more likely to blow things full of holes as they bite like a doberman

    a dc generator welder is usualy the best match for these rods you realy need to be shown how to burn them
     
  3. Memmeddu

    Memmeddu Member

    Messages:
    347
    Location:
    Italia Sardegna
    So this is the problem , I think that i will try with 6011
    I have also a genset mpm 5/170 cx gasoline dc welder which have 120V ocv
    My initial idea was to try and if it goes was good for me ,but if not was allways good because finally i can run 7018 without hearing the engine noise
    Do you think that this welder can run 2,5 mm 6010 (i tried whit 4mm)
     
  4. bwservices Member

    Messages:
    188
    Location:
    Ireland
    the size of the rod wont make a difference
     
    zeppelin builder likes this.
  5. Memmeddu

    Memmeddu Member

    Messages:
    347
    Location:
    Italia Sardegna
    :(
     
  6. Richard.

    Richard. Member

    Messages:
    16,494
    Location:
    Cambridgeshire
    As said above and in zeps very well explained post the size of the rod won’t help because it isn’t the fact you don’t have the current to burn the rod it’s the coating on the rod that has specific demands from the welder. They are a very fast freeze electrode designed to plonk steel in big gaps to put it blunt and the ideal power source needs to keep them fluent at the arc. I don’t know all the technical stuff with regards to how the characteristics of the ideal power source works apart from a decent ocv is needed.
    Don’t be too miffed about it mind I have 3 sets here at the moment and all high end stuff too and non of them will run a 6010 perfectly. But then I’m not bothered as I’m not doing any open root stuff at home.
     
  7. premmington

    premmington Member

    Messages:
    732
    Location:
    Norfolk
    CELS need OCV.

    I have only one little welder that will run them - it has a dedicated switch for CELS - (Fronius transpocket 1500)
     
    Memmeddu likes this.
  8. Stingray Member

    Messages:
    322
    Location:
    Northern Ireland
    Not quite sure what the fasination of running cels are for a novice but good points from everyone but one more thing what condition are your rods in, you’re not drying them are you?
     
    Memmeddu likes this.
  9. Memmeddu

    Memmeddu Member

    Messages:
    347
    Location:
    Italia Sardegna
    Fronius is a dream
    If i was not a hobby welder ....
    Fronius akkupocket 150 was the choice
    My welder as title is only a cheap chinese inverter (Ahp inside) ,i'm not sure if is rated for cellulosic , in the manual there are not indication of what kind of electrodes it can run
    So there are not nothing like
    -Rated for 6010
    Or
    -use not 6010
    I found some 2,5 mm 6010 rod and I will try tomorrow .
    Hope goes better than 4mm which is something of current eater
     
  10. Memmeddu

    Memmeddu Member

    Messages:
    347
    Location:
    Italia Sardegna
    No i have no idea of rod conditions ,they was used by a friend who is dead and the son give me a pair of rods from the shelf of the workshop
    I keep them warm for the night and tomorrow I want to run them
    I hope this helps
    Thanks for the advice
    And yes i never used before because I had only a buzz box ,then I bought a n engine driven welder but only because was sell for only 350 euros and also because i like this little genset
    Now I bought this cheap inverter ,and I want to know what can do and what can't
    But is true i need deep penetration on some kind of joints ,i work on 4-5-10-16mm steel , and 6013 is not good,7018 is better but i think needs 6010 first pass
    For 10mm and more thickness i guess




    Ps i'm doing my best to make you understand what I meen but I'm can't speak english properly because my moder language is so different and often i found difficult
     
  11. Sarto

    Sarto Small flower carts specialist

    Messages:
    415
    Location:
    Padova - Italy
    I tried the 6010 on my mighty Telwin, but It doesn't burn them well.
    The arc tends to snuff out, unless I put arc force almost to 0, then it stabilizes a little.

    It doesn't change with the size of the rod, it is the coating tipe that makes all the difference.

    About drying the 6010 rods, don't. They work better a little damp. At least this is what I read everywhere.

    Have a nice weekend. :drunk::drunk:

    Sart0
     
    Memmeddu likes this.
  12. Memmeddu

    Memmeddu Member

    Messages:
    347
    Location:
    Italia Sardegna
    I have not arc force settings on this welder .
    I try whit this smaller ones also if I think your answer is good maybe doesn't change nothing.
    But I hope in the small 1% of possibilities that can go
    If not I have allways my genset which can run 6010
    I can also try to run whit the genset and see how works and than find the mistake and adjust my skill to run whit inverter
    Maybe also that my movement to wide
     
  13. Stingray Member

    Messages:
    322
    Location:
    Northern Ireland
    Worst thing you can do is dry cellulosic electrodes, they need a certain amount of moisture to run correctly, I would just use 7018’s for what you are wanting to do...
     
    Memmeddu likes this.
  14. Richard.

    Richard. Member

    Messages:
    16,494
    Location:
    Cambridgeshire
    They are not the right rod and you are not thinking about this in the right way.
    A 6010 is a deep penetrating rod but it’s also fast freeze. This means you can down hand put in an open root, get right through it and not blow it away.
    If your wanting to fabricate something with enclosed joints and you need penetration then thinking a 6010 is going to provide the goods over a low hydrogen electrode you are mistaken.
    Also why do you need deep penetration from the rod? If it’s not full pen then why is that important. A good 3.2 7016 in a fillet joint will not penetrate deep but it will fuse perfectly all round.
    Going deeper doesn’t mean stronger. If your after a sound joint with good mechanicals on heavy steel fabrication then I believe you’ll be hard pushed to better a low hydrogen consumable.
     
    Memmeddu and dcocks like this.
  15. Memmeddu

    Memmeddu Member

    Messages:
    347
    Location:
    Italia Sardegna
    Ok so if i do first pass 6010 then another pass 7018 on a fillet joint i'm not doing better than a single pass 7018 ?

    So for what is born 6010?
    I was thinking that was for high penetration single pass without chamfer the workpieces ?
    I often work on low budget farm equipment repair for a friend which often call me to repair something dirt of oil and painted, unfortunately often i can't use an angle grinder to clean all
    Can you explain me when i need 6010,when helps , when it needs not?

    I would like built an idraulic press , and I would like that it becomes very sturdy because was thinking to use a 50 tons car bottle jack
    I need to bend metal , bearing stuff ,destroy things ....
     
  16. Richard.

    Richard. Member

    Messages:
    16,494
    Location:
    Cambridgeshire
    Open roots. Gaps.
    They are primarily used in pipe joints.
     
    Memmeddu likes this.
  17. dcocks

    dcocks Forum Supporter

    Messages:
    218
    Location:
    Leicestershire
    Been welding farm stuff up all my life and never used a 6010 yet, only ever had 6013 and 7018 and 100's of kilos of hard facing rods, but that's another story
     
    Memmeddu likes this.
  18. Memmeddu

    Memmeddu Member

    Messages:
    347
    Location:
    Italia Sardegna
    Other applications?
     
  19. Richard.

    Richard. Member

    Messages:
    16,494
    Location:
    Cambridgeshire
    Applications with open roots.
     
    Memmeddu likes this.
  20. Rig Pig

    Rig Pig Member

    Messages:
    3,003
    Location:
    Narrwich! U.K.
    Americans seem to love them for everything!
     
    Memmeddu likes this.
Advertisements