Replacing pillar drill bearings? Big runout

[JOEPRO]

I picked this 3 phase SIP pillar drill up cheap a few weeks back. On checking the chuck runout with a dial gauge it has alot of play.

The bearings must be toast in it. I intend to repair and keep it.

I hope the spindle isn't bent somehow.

Fb marketplace photo



I can see a bearing at the bottom. I presume there will be one up top too obv.

If I manage to get these bearings out are they likely to be mail order from bearing suppliers or would they have to come from SIP really? In which case I might be better to check stock first.

 

[bourbon]

The bearing boys

 

[Hopefuldave]

If the spindle IS bent, it's not the end of the world - I straightened mine by heating the "bulge" with the TIG torch, putting it between V blocks (using the bearing surfaces) and measuring runout with a DTI on the spindle between the bearings and on the Jacobs taper for the chuck, checked that the "high" bulge between bearings was opposite the "low" on the taper - TIG was set at about 80 to 100A (I think) and arc was only applied for a few seconds each time, done gradually it came back to next to no runout measured on the Jacobs taper, in use it's fine down to 1.5mm drills (smallest I've tried so far) at the highest spindle speed.

 

[Agroshield]

What are you checking? If you are running the dial gauge on the outside of the chuck, that is not checking anything.

A good first move is to confirm there is no slack between the quill and the casting/body.

As above, it would help to remove the chuck and run the gauge directly on the jacobs taper of the spindle. If the bearings are shot, the indicator would move when you tug the spindle back and forth. If there is run-out, that would show when you rotate the spindle.

 

[JOEPRO]

If the spindle IS bent, it's not the end of the world - I straightened mine by heating the "bulge" with the TIG torch, putting it between V blocks (using the bearing surfaces) and measuring runout with a DTI on the spindle between the bearings and on the Jacobs taper for the chuck, checked that the "high" bulge between bearings was opposite the "low" on the taper - TIG was set at about 80 to 100A (I think) and arc was only applied for a few seconds each time, done gradually it came back to next to no runout measured on the Jacobs taper, in use it's fine down to 1.5mm drills (smallest I've tried so far) at the highest spindle speed.

What are you checking? If you are running the dial gauge on the outside of the chuck, that is not checking anything.

A good first move is to confirm there is no slack between the quill and the casting/body.

As above, it would help to remove the chuck and run the gauge directly on the jacobs taper of the spindle. If the bearings are shot, the indicator would move when you tug the spindle back and forth. If there is run-out, that would show when you rotate the spindle.

Thanks for the replies. I removed the chuck and cleaned the Philips taper inside the drill with grey scotch and WD40. It had rust colouration coming off it.

I tried measuring inside the taper but my dial gauge isn't ideal for that. There is consistent runout showing.

With the taper cleaned I installed the other drill chuck and marked the high and low spots on the quill according to dial indicator. (I wanted to check if the quill was bent in which case these locations should remain the same)

I then reinstalled the other keyless chuck again and the high / low spots changed orientation.

I think this suggests there may be a fitting issue with the taper itself? Should I clean it more and apply some blue on it?

I don't have a lathe or anything so my options to test further are quite limited. Rightly or wrongly maybe I could find a clocking of the chuck (keyless will be permanent) which will reduce the runout.

In terms of bearing play, yes I can see movement when I grab the top pulley and pull on it. I'd say the bearings are Still original and this drill was used daily in an engineering place for many years before I bought it. The Dad had passed it to his son and it was in his single garage taking up too much space.

 

[mtt.tr]

What's the free play in the bearings?
Does it grumble?

It's a pillar drill its not for precision work.

 

[JOEPRO]

What's the free play in the bearings?
Does it grumble?

It's a pillar drill its not for precision work.

My other Sealey pillar drill has zero runout. Runs perfectly true. So I'd like to see if I can get this SIP to run the same ideally.

Haven't measured the side to side runout in terms of free play will try that later. There is no grumbling of bearings that I am aware of would need to re fit the motor and run it for a bit.

 

[Sergei Slovenija]

First, push the quill as far down as possible and swing it with your hands. Is there any wear in the drill casting itself? I have a backlash of 0.3, the gap is visible to the eye. This is a complex renovation to satisfy perfectionism.

 

[Agroshield]

There is an exploded manual here:

https://static-content.cromwell.co.uk/pdfs/s/Medusa_Attachments/SIP/SIP2770170J_TDS.pdf

The page layout of the pdf is very confusing - you have to go by the page numbers written at the bottom of the pages.

The lower bearing does not seem to be called out on the diagram. Possibly it is the same as the upper bearing, which is 6005, vey standard. The 51107 above the unlabelled lower bearing is a thrust bearing.

 

[Turbo]

For bearing supply I use Simply Bearings, all the other ones like Bearing Boys charge an extortionate postage fee to NI!

As others have said, the runout you see is likely play between the quill and the drill housing caused by wear over its previous life, though some of it may have been there from new.

The way you can test just the spindle runout is to clamp the dial gauge base to the quill & then test the spindle.

How much runout are you seeing?

A little bit is common enough on drills in that price range, they're built to a price. I wend to a equipment supplier & checked all their drills. There were Sealey, SIP, Draper, Clarke, priced up to £1000 and on every one I could detect play between the quill & main housing, just by extending the quill fully & trying to rock it.

To get near zero runout you would have to spend thousands on a new drill or buy an old British made unit like a Meddings, Progress or Fobco. Many of then had a method of adjusting the play between the quill & housing to take up any slack.

 

[Sergei Slovenija]

For bearing supply I use Simply Bearings, all the other ones like Bearing Boys charge an extortionate postage fee to NI!

As others have said, the runout you see is likely play between the quill and the drill housing caused by wear over its previous life, though some of it may have been there from new.

The way you can test just the spindle runout is to clamp the dial gauge base to the quill & then test the spindle.

How much runout are you seeing?

A little bit is common enough on drills in that price range, they're built to a price. I wend to a equipment supplier & checked all their drills. There were Sealey, SIP, Draper, Clarke, priced up to £1000 and on every one I could detect play between the quill & main housing, just by extending the quill fully & trying to rock it.

To get near zero runout you would have to spend thousands on a new drill or buy an old British made unit like a Meddings, Progress or Fobco. Many of then had a method of adjusting the play between the quill & housing to take up any slack.

You can spend thousands of pounds more gracefully . Make a new quill with a plus repair size. Bore a hole in the body of the drilling machine, maintaining the alignment of the column and quill. Coincidence of the gap between the teeth of the drive gear and the teeth on the quill. Turning, grinding, hardening, cutting teeth, boring head, etc.

 

[steve t]

You can spend thousands of pounds more gracefully . Make a new quill with a plus repair size. Bore a hole in the body of the drilling machine, maintaining the alignment of the column and quill. Coincidence of the gap between the teeth of the drive gear and the teeth on the quill. Turning, grinding, hardening, cutting teeth, boring head, etc.

Sod that I'd just use it to drill holes as it is

 

[JOEPRO]

I will refit the motor and try it sure also. Just to make sure it is drilling OK. With the runout I am seeing I expect the bit to wander but let's see.

 

[Turbo]

You can spend thousands of pounds more gracefully . Make a new quill with a plus repair size. Bore a hole in the body of the drilling machine, maintaining the alignment of the column and quill. Coincidence of the gap between the teeth of the drive gear and the teeth on the quill. Turning, grinding, hardening, cutting teeth, boring head, etc.

In other words, polishing a turd!

 

[Sergei Slovenija]

I will refit the motor and try it sure also. Just to make sure it is drilling OK. With the runout I am seeing I expect the bit to wander but let's see.

I have 0.3 mm runout on the drilling machine. I replaced the bearings (they were in terrible condition) in the quill, and am just doing some drilling work. I don't need quality, I need holes

 

[Hopefuldave]

Your best jacobs chuck is only gonna run about 0.002" TIR

I bet the spindle is bent though, i've had few little drills

Surprisingly easy to do - the spindle between the bearings is often only 8 or 10mm, Get It Wrong with a long, large drill in the chuck and you've more than enough leverage to put a bend in it... I know, I did.

 

[JOEPRO]

I re fitted the motor just to test the drill. Even at the lowest speed setting it drills really nicely. No lack of torque at all no hesitation. 10mm bit through 10mm steel.



The soft start and start and variable speed controller is very nice to use. Definitely like that ease of adjustment without swapping belts.

I have not had time to mess more with the chuck and blue it etc but here is a short video of the runout I am getting. This is measured at the end of the chuck taper. (0.15mm runout)

It did drill that 10mm part AOK no trouble at all. No shaking around with the bit and started off just fine. Maybe this amount of runout is acceptable? I may still be able to improve on that by checking and cleaning chuck fitting and also with bearing replacement but wondering if that really is required here. It runs smooth and quiet.

 

[JOEPRO]

Admittedly my measurement above was also at the chuck taper. It gets worse further down at the drill bit itself. I will measure that and side to side runout more accurately in the coming days.