Rebar 10mm+ welding into legs for wooden table - which machine?

[Wendelspanswick]

I draw the line at Silverline

Not really, its just an old buzz box, not an oil filled welder which is what the seller says it is in the description.
The rods would be useful but it depends how they were stored and it would take you years to use them all.

 

[Wuffles]

I like you lot, very helpful.

 

[PTvor]

Not sure if eBay links are allowed, but does this sound any good? Just sat in a hotel in France waiting for a ferry tomorrow morning and needed some excitement.

There are a hell of a lot of rods included with it, but it doesn't say what size or what sort. The pictures aren't clear. Some of the packets look like ESAB, which is a good brand. They may all be useless anyway having been kept in the damp for years and the flux coming off.

As Wendelspanwick says, this is not an oil cooled welder, it's a buzz box. It appears as if the seller doesn't know anything about it.

I'd keep looking.

 

[rikrobson]

TBH there is nothing wrong with the Silverline one. its just a buzz box and was cheap. But the new welder's a step change. So much easier to weld with. and iI suspect the Silverline one is a little bit better than the smaller Aldi/Lidl ones, unless they are the same.

 

[Wendelspanswick]

I still have my buzz box that I bought in 1983, I dragged it out a couple of months back to reweld the trailer hitch on my Fergie trailer, it was a hot day and yet it still burnt about 10 3.2mm rods before it cut out. It's got a copper wound transformer but no fan, I think the newer ones have aluminium wound transformers so the duty cycle is less?

 

[KemppiFrog]

I think the aluminium windings is more a case of being much cheaper than copper. I had one years ago that demonstrated it's duty cycle by venting a large amount of smoke and refusing to work........ever.

 

[PTvor]

I still have my buzz box that I bought in 1983, I dragged it out a couple of months back to reweld the trailer hitch on my Fergie trailer, it was a hot day and yet it still burnt about 10 3.2mm rods before it cut out. It's got a copper wound transformer but no fan, I think the newer ones have aluminium wound transformers so the duty cycle is less?

It's also to do with the amount and quality of the material in the transformer core. Low loss transformer core alloys aren't cheap.

With modern buzz boxes, with their market being squeezed by inverters, it seems to be a question of cut every corner so you can produce something which can still, just, be described as a welder.

I bet when you adjust for inflation, your 1983 buzz box was quite a pricey item.

 

[Wuffles]

Something like these? It would be better welded but you could make them without a welder, you could tap the ends and fasten the plate with a nut either side. The other end if cut rather than bent could be tapped into a suitable tight fitting pieces of tube.

View attachment 66213

More of a splayed tripod effect. Tight at the top where the weld would be, and then splaying outwards with a bend on the each of the legs at the bottom. But splayed, bent legged tripod probably describes it best.

Hey,
I'm not far away. I can do it if you like, or you can do it using my welder, if you fee like it.
I'm a few minutes from Wells, but pass by Axbridge & Winscombe every so often.
All the Best,
CJ

Axbridge is the postal town (you know what it's like in the sticks). I'm near Rooks Bridge (near the speed camera) on the A38 if you're passing.

Think I'm going to go for a 2nd hand machine - like has been covered and un-covered in the rest of this thread since you wrote this - but will most likely need to learn the basics before I go bonkers. Any suggestions locally where to start?

 

[Country Joe]

Axbridge is the postal town (you know what it's like in the sticks)

Yeah, mine is Bath, and I'm miles from there!

but will most likely need to learn the basics before I go bonkers. Any suggestions locally where to start?

I'll PM you a number, as I can't easily predict where I am, but I can bring some steel to practise on too, if you like.
Most likely won't take very long, anyway.

All the Best,
CJ

 

[Wuffles]

Mulling over second hand units on eBay and this one came up close to me (albeit new). Opinions on this kind of thing? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WELDLINE-...-240V-WELDER-C-W-WELDING-HELMET-/231567819142

I know it's more expensive than I suggested I might be looking at, but I have a birthday due apparently and am already being asked what I might like.

Country Joe has very kindly offered me his time and a go on some equipment so I was hoping (if I enjoy it) to have present ideas lined up.

 

[Wendelspanswick]

If you just want a cheap welder to start with you can have my old SIP 140 amp buzzbox for £30, its works well although the on/off switch has been bypassed as it failed, I just switch it on at the plug.
I can chuck in a working reactive mask and a few rods for another £10, and give you some tuition if you want it.
I bought the SIP new in about 1985 and it works well, I last used it about 6 weeks ago to weld the hitch back on my tractor trailer.
The trouble is I now have 4 MMA welders, 1 oil cooled, 1 on my AC/DC TIG, the SIP and my new GYS 200 so I can't see me using the SIP any more.
I am just outside Taunton so you can collect or I can deliver, if you are interested.

 

[PTvor]

Duty Cycle: 150A @ 10% / 70A @ 60% / 55A @ 100%

That's not great in comparison with other inverters for about £200 - they sell the welder separately for about that much.

The others also do a higher max current.

You're probably not going to be testing the duty cycle but the better it is the less stress the machine is likely to be under.

No mention of a warranty AFAICS, so assume one year.

If you are spending that much you can get better value here.

http://www.weldequip.com/parweld-xti160.htm

Or with similar Thermal Arc or R-Tech machines.

Plus an automatic helmet of your choice, for up to about £40

Anyway, I thought you only wanted to tack some rebar together, or have you already thought up other things you could do?

 

[Wendelspanswick]

The welder you linked to is not one I have heard of, have a look at the Parweld 160 or the Thermal Arc 175 which have both been rated well on the forum.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Parweld-X...771?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3397b630db

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/THERMAL-A...263?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2a1885e7df

A new reactive mask can be picked up for £20.

 

[Wuffles]

Sorry everyone, didn't get a notification for these replies (well, I did but it's been marked as spam).

If you just want a cheap welder to start with you can have my old SIP 140 amp buzzbox for £30, its works well although the on/off switch has been bypassed as it failed, I just switch it on at the plug.
I can chuck in a working reactive mask and a few rods for another £10, and give you some tuition if you want it.
I bought the SIP new in about 1985 and it works well, I last used it about 6 weeks ago to weld the hitch back on my tractor trailer.
The trouble is I now have 4 MMA welders, 1 oil cooled, 1 on my AC/DC TIG, the SIP and my new GYS 200 so I can't see me using the SIP any more.
I am just outside Taunton so you can collect or I can deliver, if you are interested.

Thanks for that. If you're in no rush to sell let me get over my massive fear of the unknown and see how the land lies. If the first job I have to do comes off well and I turn out to be a natural then I may be interested, but I may just go for something posher like the links you have both provided.

All great info though.

Duty Cycle: 150A @ 10% / 70A @ 60% / 55A @ 100%

That's not great in comparison with other inverters for about £200 - they sell the welder separately for about that much.

The others also do a higher max current.

You're probably not going to be testing the duty cycle but the better it is the less stress the machine is likely to be under.

No mention of a warranty AFAICS, so assume one year.

If you are spending that much you can get better value here.

http://www.weldequip.com/parweld-xti160.htm

Or with similar Thermal Arc or R-Tech machines.

Plus an automatic helmet of your choice, for up to about £40

Anyway, I thought you only wanted to tack some rebar together, or have you already thought up other things you could do?

You're right about that's all I wanted to do, and actually, I'm hoping to do that under instruction so even that won't be something I will need to do myself, but, not being able to work with metal has held me back a few times in the past.

So if it all goes well with the rebar this time, I'll definitely be doing more of that.

Also wanted to recreate some "art" I wish I'd bought once upon a time - not a direct copy, but loved the idea of it. All thick bits of metal. And that's where it will go from there I hope.

So far though, it's been fantastic to understand that had I taken the local steel guys advice I'd have bought a lemon for what I am trying to achieve.

 

[Wendelspanswick]

No problem, the SIP is going to sit on the shelf gathering dust along with all my other redundant bits of kit!

 

[GeorgeB]

Don't be put off too much by the general dislike of cheap Aldi type welding sets, they are commonly called buzz boxes.

You could get one for under £50 and it would weld rebar with no problems at all.

I agree. I remembered this thread earlier today when I welded together some 12mm rebar for use in concrete I'm laying. I used a decades-old SIP140 arc welder, which really does 'buzz', together with cheap 3.2mm 6013 rods which came from Screwfix. I set the arc welder on maximum and blasted away, welding nearly all the sides around the joint. Here's a photo of the result. The joints seem perfectly strong to me. The browning on the joints is not oxidation, but a quirk of the image.

 

[cumbriasteve]

The key point there is the decades-old SIP140, mine was bought around the late 70's and was a great machine, I don't think today's cheap arc sets are as well built.

I like to remind people they are still worth buying, they will weld up gates, garden furniture and lots more, they can be an affordable step to learning the art of welding and having a new hobby.

 

[Wuffles]

Myself and WendelSpanswick keep managing to miss each other, but I will be looking forward to trying my hand with that decades old kit.

Meanwhile, I met up with CountryJoe yesterday and we (well certainly me) enjoyed playing around with some of his kit. Managed to deviate entirely from the planned set of legs for my piece and went full tilt into a much more solid frame. Used some 20mm solid round bar and his very nice MIG, which of course has spoiled me forever now. Am already close to looking out for a decent MIG for around £500 ish later in the year.