Cobbler
Codger bodger
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Been there, done that, & had the skid marks to prove it.
Vitesse, many years ago.
- Thread starter Piero
- Start date
Been there, done that, & had the skid marks to prove it.
Vitesse, many years ago.
Wendelspanswick
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The Mk 2 was better, not great, but better as it had the lower wishbone arm and the Rotoflex doughnut coupling.
PhillipM
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Why would the coilover position remove a lot of the brake force? The main brake force is rotational around the hub centre from the reaction force, not just the deceleration force itself, if it's turning the upright it's putting that joint in shear.
As for making a lot like that - well, like I say, a lot of people do, a lot of big names have, they generally use an appreciably oversized joint and thread to compensate - but unfortunately, not everyone gets away with it. There's plenty of people been bitten by it, from clubman cars rallying right up to manufacturers of track cars that you'd think would know better.
Why not just use eccentric bolts on the inboard and outboard for adjustment given everything is in line? Cheaper, lighter and stronger?
(I've a Mk3, and it's getting some real suspension when it goes back together, I don't like hedges!)
As for making a lot like that - well, like I say, a lot of people do, a lot of big names have, they generally use an appreciably oversized joint and thread to compensate - but unfortunately, not everyone gets away with it. There's plenty of people been bitten by it, from clubman cars rallying right up to manufacturers of track cars that you'd think would know better.
Why not just use eccentric bolts on the inboard and outboard for adjustment given everything is in line? Cheaper, lighter and stronger?
(I've a Mk3, and it's getting some real suspension when it goes back together, I don't like hedges!)
As said that joint defiantly has some shear loading and anyone who thinks the damper has some influence on the loadings should really think hard before giving advice on something as critical as this.
I do however think it would be fine if you use a big joint, it's a light car with not much grip or power and it's not being rallied or anything silly like that. How about a normal bush inboard and a pair of outer you'll get toe adjust as well then.
I do however think it would be fine if you use a big joint, it's a light car with not much grip or power and it's not being rallied or anything silly like that. How about a normal bush inboard and a pair of outer you'll get toe adjust as well then.
Wedg1e
They call me Mr. Bodge-angles
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The tie rod removes most of the shear force
and the combination of coilover position and top link removes a lot of the braking force IMO
I presume you are getting rid of the leaf spring ?
no need to alter anything they handle well
View attachment 60091
Just what you want a leaf spring as a top arm
That takes me back, I had a Mk3 Spit when I was 18.
Wedg1e
They call me Mr. Bodge-angles
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That's interesting (to me anyway
), that threaded adjuster looks just like a part TVR used on my car, I couldn't find replacement bushes but got some the right ID and OD but too long, and shortened them on the lathe.normspanners
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because the coil over becomes another telescopic link, it is pushing down off hub centre, to the rear of the hub unit and that reduces the turning moment you can clearly see the coil over mount pointing rearwards with the nuts and washers, the front tie bar forming a triangle with the front of the bottom wishbone that is a normal two bar wishbone set up, the triangle the wishbone forms stops the rear of the hub unit moving in and out at the rear ie the tracking adjustment keeping the rear wheels parallel.
The tie bar also along with the top arm help each other to stop the brake reaction turning moment, by the tie bar being pulled ie under tension, then the opposite under power, it would go into compression to stop the power reaction ,
If the tie bar was mounted along the wishbone between the inner and outer joint as in escort mk1/2 then the two joints would be in slight shear as they are in escorts and can bend under extreme loading the brake reaction in escorts is taken by the shocker
But as can be seen in the tr6 case the the tie bar is mounted right at the hub.
So where you think that inner joint is in shear?
I do think hard my friend and have designed suspension systems before
Piero
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Hold on hold on.
I posted this thread and feel a few critical points need to be cleared up.
Firstly this set up is from a rotoflex triumph.
A gt6 mk2 and some early mk3s.
And some vitesses.
It's has a lower wish bone.
On all the other small chassis triumphs. They have a solid drive shaft that causes big camber changes.
Second. This set up uses a leaf spring.
Not a coil over.
The leaf spring plays a big part in the set up.
Lastly a very important point.
There is a radius arm .
This radius arm can not alloy shear
I posted this thread and feel a few critical points need to be cleared up.
Firstly this set up is from a rotoflex triumph.
A gt6 mk2 and some early mk3s.
And some vitesses.
It's has a lower wish bone.
On all the other small chassis triumphs. They have a solid drive shaft that causes big camber changes.
Second. This set up uses a leaf spring.
Not a coil over.
The leaf spring plays a big part in the set up.
Lastly a very important point.
There is a radius arm .
This radius arm can not alloy shear
If anything the damper will be pulling up due to weight transfer and not pushing down, secondly the opposite will not happen under power as all the torque is transmitted to the diff (would be the same for braking if inboards were used) and thirdly remind me never to get into something you designed....
if you remove the wishbone and leave everything else attached the hub is free to rotate, you'd be able to move it by hand, therefor the wishbone must be the link resisting rotation load
normspanners
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I realise this is not the solid drive shaft type where the driveshaft becomes one of the links in the suspension.
most link arms are radius arms the ones you talk of are tie bars.
I presumed you where going for this type of set up and doing away with the top leaf.
but no matter it doesnt alter the basics of the set up.
HOW can a coil over pull up???????they support the car!!
Of course the opposite will happen under power to braking, the diff has nothing to do with it, apart from torque reaction,
the car it pushed forward by the tie rod becoming under compression force
if the wishbone was removed the tie rod and the spring/ top arm would stop it rotating
you tell me how that hub carrier is free to rotate with that spring and the tie bar attached
as per the picture below all the bottom wishbone is doing is stopping the hub move in and out
Well myfriend there has been some very happy World Champion rally drivers that over the years have been pleased with the cars I have set up.
Piero
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having looked long and hard at the ORIGINAL set up.
I came to realise triumph had done the best for there dollar.
I would gain nothing by not using the leaf spring.
In fact it would be to my detriment
The last to photos are not by the way standard original set ups.
Can be quite confusing for anyone not triumph inspired
Last comment is totally correct
The lea f spring stops the V link from and twisting.
It's also put a the leaf spring bolt in shear were it should be
I came to realise triumph had done the best for there dollar.
I would gain nothing by not using the leaf spring.
In fact it would be to my detriment
The last to photos are not by the way standard original set ups.
Can be quite confusing for anyone not triumph inspired
Last comment is totally correct
The lea f spring stops the V link from and twisting.
It's also put a the leaf spring bolt in shear were it should be
What were you the tea boy? because you certainly aint no suspension expert that's for sure... the two main advantages of a chassis mount diff is first un-sprung weight and second it decouples rotational loads on the suspension hubs, trying to argue against that is just plain dumb, it's like trying to say the world is flat.
normspanners
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I realise that fact,but they where the only ones that i could find that explained my theory.
normspanners
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You seem to want to revert to insults then, i will not allow myself to lower to your level .
where did I say that it stopped the opposite rotational force I said the tie bar would go into compression to push the car forward.
chevy2
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I make quite a lot of wishbones like that and similar for hotrods/racecars,
for something like that being only locational and not load bearing(not taking the weight of the car)
also it being a light car i'd probably use CDS tube with 7/8" o/d and a 3/16" wall thickness,
it can be bored at around 9/16" on a lathe and then tapped at 5/8" unf thread in either left or right hand,
i often use those joints in the first pic, they come in 5/8" unf left or right hand, have a urethane bush in two halfs and an inner sleeve which comes bored at 1/2",
i get these through Langy on here who stocks them, not far from you in Watford, he keeps them in induction cast polished stainless,
heres some 4 link bars i made using the stainless joints.
for something like that being only locational and not load bearing(not taking the weight of the car)
also it being a light car i'd probably use CDS tube with 7/8" o/d and a 3/16" wall thickness,
it can be bored at around 9/16" on a lathe and then tapped at 5/8" unf thread in either left or right hand,
i often use those joints in the first pic, they come in 5/8" unf left or right hand, have a urethane bush in two halfs and an inner sleeve which comes bored at 1/2",
i get these through Langy on here who stocks them, not far from you in Watford, he keeps them in induction cast polished stainless,
heres some 4 link bars i made using the stainless joints.
and just for the Record this is my group4 Escort one of three with the quads in front of it and the pots on the shelf are not for fishing...
normspanners
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That did not answer my question.
SmartWerks
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normspanners
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,
EXACTLY it would go into compression to stop the power reaction allowing the hub/ wheel to move forward within the wheel arch.
I did not mention torque reaction .
