re-filling blow torch bottles

[BrokenBiker]

anyone refilling the plumbers type propane bottles from a larget calor type bottle?

i use the little hand helf torch pretty often on cars and for small bending aplications, but paying between 12-16 quid for mapp gas bottles.

i now have a 47kg propane bottle so wondering about just using propane instead. the torch can be run form the blue bottles and im assuming its just straight propane in those.

any issues with refilling them? apart from the obviosu needing to turn the large bottle upside down?

would also be interested in refilling the gas for my camping/fishing/crane stove as well that takes the little 450g dumpy cans of gas but i think has the same thread as my blow torch although will need to check next time im at the lock up

 

[gaz1]

try a normal gas bottle first before you consider it

mapp gas is handy to reach higher temps for heating up bolts on cars but not with normal gas

 

[BrokenBiker]

try a normal gas bottle first before you consider it

mapp gas is handy to reach higher temps for heating up bolts on cars but not with normal gas

i used to use propane for the stuff on the car, think it was a go systems torch that only took its own brand gas cans...it was slow but did the job to a degree.

ill see if i can find an adapter for the camping stove first

 

[hotponyshoes]

You can get a hose that connects the hand torch to a propane bottle.
That's easier and makes the torch easier to use as well.

You can sort of refill the little bottles from an upside down big one but you can only get them about 1/4 full.
You can push that to 1/3 if you warm the big bottle and stick the little bottle in the freezer but it's a hassle.
Not too bad if you have loads of little empty and can do a few at once

 

[gaz1]

from my plumber experience side of it normal gas is fine to use for most stuff but when you need more heat then mapp gas is better whilst using less gas

but sometimes mapp gas is too strong on heat where normal gas is much better to use even when you move the gas torch head more to adjust for more heat you find this out when your heating copper pipe up you can overheat the copper pipe really easily

heating lead up is fun to play with mapp gas

 

[Erie Fred]

You can get a hose that connects the hand torch to a propane bottle.
That's easier and makes the torch easier to use as well.

You can sort of refill the little bottles from an upside down big one but you can only get them about 1/4 full.
You can push that to 1/3 if you warm the big bottle and stick the little bottle in the freezer but it's a hassle.
Not too bad if you have loads of little empty and can do a few at once

I made my own hose with valve, and refill my 1lb bottles 80% (the limit) full from a 20lb grill bottle.
1. use a face shield and gloves
2. small hemostat to affix to the schrader valve on the 1lb bottle.
3. turn on the liquid from the 20lb bottle, and pull up on the schrader valve until liquid is coming out.
4. unhook from the schrader, and turn off the fill valve from the 20lb bottle.

No refrigerators are harmed in any way.

YMMV, maybe your small bottles don't have the schrader valve ?

 

[hotponyshoes]

I made my own hose with valve, and refill my 1lb bottles 80% (the limit) full from a 20lb grill bottle.
1. use a face shield and gloves
2. small hemostat to affix to the schrader valve on the 1lb bottle.
3. turn on the liquid from the 20lb bottle, and pull up on the schrader valve until liquid is coming out.
4. unhook from the schrader, and turn off the fill valve from the 20lb bottle.

No refrigerators are harmed in any way.

YMMV, maybe your small bottles don't have the schrader valve ?

The ones I used have a valve then another Non-Return Valve under that.
You have to remove both valves then just replace the outer valve if you want to refill them.
I've never managed to get more than 1/3 fill on the little bottles even if I leave them overnight?

 

[BrokenBiker]

You can get a hose that connects the hand torch to a propane bottle.
That's easier and makes the torch easier to use as well.

Except I'd need to cart a 47kg bottle around when awat from home.

 

[brightspark]

You can get a hose that connects the hand torch to a propane bottle.
That's easier and makes the torch easier to use as well.

You can sort of refill the little bottles from an upside down big one but you can only get them about 1/4 full.
You can push that to 1/3 if you warm the big bottle and stick the little bottle in the freezer but it's a hassle.
Not too bad if you have loads of little empty and can do a few at once

the chuck away none fillable bottles have a one way valve in them and cant be filled with the adaptor from a larger bottle. i refill the primus 2000 refillable bottles with an adaptor i made myself and can be filled in minutes full can fill the 7.5kg bottles of a 47kg bottle with the other adapter i have

 

[hotponyshoes]

the chuck away none fillable bottles have a one way valve in them and cant be filled with the adaptor from a larger bottle. i refill the primus 2000 refillable bottles with an adaptor i made myself and can be filled in minutes full can fill the 7.5kg bottles of a 47kg bottle with the other adapter i have

See above..
Remove the outer valve.
Then the non-return is under that.
Remove the NR then refit the outer

 

[brightspark]

what outer valve, the torch screws on to the boss on the top and the valve is under that and cannot be got at

 

[hotponyshoes]

The valve is the same as a tyre valve.
Use one of those forked screwdriver bits and just take the valve itself out

 

[8ob]

After being pointed at the refilling valve on here I have had a lot of success refilling the smaller bottles, I invert the bigger bottle before starting so the liquid gets a head start.

Bob

 

[Memmeddu]

any issues with refilling them? apart from the obviosu needing to turn the large bottle upside down?

You may need to get the empty tank in the freezer before.
So it will accept more gas.
Propane tank are usually filled at around 15 or 18 bar but it's in its liquid phase so it much more 15 times its volume.
And I honestly don't know at how much pressure small disposable bottle do operate.
I'd avoid if in yours honestly
I'd just connect a regulator to the 40kg bottle and us it that way.

Here in Italy till 20kg they are a mixture of propane and butane above 20kg is straight propane.
I know that in airsoft communities around the world is common practice to fill the magazines with household propane tanks using adapters cause it's cheaper.
So it's very doable but again I would not feel 100% confident by doing that.

Over here in Italy it's not common because we mostly run AEG ( electric operated) while in France or the united states' GBBR (gas blowback rifles) are much more common, said that many use HPA guns even more common, using essentially a little scuba bottle.

 

[BrokenBiker]

I'd just connect a regulator to the 40kg bottle and us it that way.

but then i need to drag a 47kg bottle (which actually weighs close to 100kg when full) everywhere i want to use the torch...

popping out to sort a siezed bolt on a mates tractor becomes a bit of a pain then...

i still have mapp left but will be buying a propane bottle next and then will see how refilling it goes. for the use it gets i dont actually need the mapp, only started buying it to heat metal for bending but ive got that covered now

 

[Memmeddu]

but then i need to drag a 47kg bottle (which actually weighs close to 100kg when full) everywhere i want to use the torch...

popping out to sort a siezed bolt on a mates tractor becomes a bit of a pain then...

i still have mapp left but will be buying a propane bottle next and then will see how refilling it goes. for the use it gets i dont actually need the mapp, only started buying it to heat metal for bending but ive got that covered now

My best piece of advice is getting a proper oxyfuel set up, keeping it small using 14 litres oxygen bottle and a 10kgs propane tank.
Cause it's like night and day.
Another solution might be one of those cheap induction coils and an upside down air spray can you won't believe it till you try.
Seek for "Würth Nothing Spray Air Can"

 

[BrokenBiker]

My best piece of advice is getting a proper oxyfuel set up, keeping it small using 14 litres oxygen bottle and a 10kgs propane tank.
Cause it's like night and day.
Another solution might be one of those cheap induction coils and an upside down air spray can you won't believe it till you try.
Seek for "Würth Nothing Spray Air Can"

an oxy fuel set up is a bit overkill for what i do with it...few iffy nuts and bolts here and there and preheat on some thicker metal before welding now...

also, had an induction heater, it was great up until it let the smoke out...now its in the hands of Guineafowl for him to play with and see if he can ressurect it. i may buy another at some point, but for now the forge and a blowtorch have got me covered.

 

[Turbo]

I bought a kit from AliExpress to refill mapp gas type bottles from a propane bottle.
It works very well and I have refilled a few bottles for the mens shed using it and an inverted 13 kg propane bottle.
Best doing it by weight and I was able to get the empty refilled to the same weight as a new bottle.

 

[hotponyshoes]

Propane is liquid in the bottle so all sizes of bottle will be at,, the same pressure.
You can't over-pressurise a small bottle from a big one.

What you can do is over-fill it. If you don't leave room (20%) at the top of the bottle for the liquid gas to turn into vapour you run the risk of liquid gas coming out.
That can either end up as a big flaming puddle. A massive flame, or frostbite/blindness/suffocation if it hits your body without burning.

Weigh the empty bottle then use the contents weight to check the refill. Better to be under than over.

 

[sg66]

Could add oxygen and get a oxy torch setup.