Question related to welding cutlery

  1. BirdmanJohn Member

    Messages:
    38
    Location:
    Sussex
    Hi, yeah so quick question. I am trying (as a complete novice) to weld cutlery, stainless steel typically.

    Basically I am either burning through it by welding too long or I am trying to tack and the tack is not really penetrating at all.

    I am using gas and a mid setting (3 of 6) about 50% wire speed,0.9mm copper coated wire.

    Any obvious suggestions or failing that, can anyone recommend any 'standard' settings for this kind of work when using a Wolfmig140. Its range I believe is 30-130 amps with power settings simply 1 2 3 4 5 or 6.

    I have made a couple of things successfully but its a bit hit or miss. If anyone's interested there's a link here to them.



    Thanks

    John
     
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  2. eLuSiVeMiTe

    eLuSiVeMiTe Forum Supporter

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  3. Parm

    Parm Metal Tinkerer

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    Looks like your trying to weld SS with a MIG setup for mild steel

    I don’t think it will work, particularly on the thin metal of cuttlery

    An expert who really knows what they are talking about will be along shortly. There’s a few about
     
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  4. Woody.v8

    Woody.v8 Blue gluer

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    2,953
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    staffs
    Turn your power down or travel faster, what you are trying to achieve is easy once you get a feel for it.
    0.9 mm wire with a gas shield dosnt sound right though ? Is it gassless wire?
     
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  5. BirdmanJohn Member

    Messages:
    38
    Location:
    Sussex
    Thanks. I will try less power. Presumably the tacks will take an extra split second or two if i do that?
    No its gas wire 0.9mm copper coated. Gas is 86 / 14 argon to co2. I have a lot to learn!
     
  6. Woody.v8

    Woody.v8 Blue gluer

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    It is common to tack up at a higher power than what you would weld at, I've never seen 0.9mm solid mig wire it would usually be 0.8 in solid .
     
  7. WorkshopChris Forum Supporter

    Messages:
    4,194
    Location:
    South East Essex
    As above when tacking you would normally use a much higher setting than for welding a similar thickness as you in effect hit it hard and fast. You need the heat to penetrate but do not want to hang around and add to much filler material.
     
  8. voipio Member

    Messages:
    657
    Cambridge, UK
    0.6mm wire with more argon in the mix might be better.
     
  9. BirdmanJohn Member

    Messages:
    38
    Location:
    Sussex
    Ok, all brilliant advice thanks, i'm about to give it another shot for an hour or so, i'll let you know how I get on. My welder will take 0.6mm but i don't have any. Pretty sure i'm using 0.9mm but it could be 0.8. I have both but one is for non gas and i cant remember off the top of my head the dimensions of the gas wire i'm using.
    Thanks again
    J
     
  10. You need to be looking at your gas mix, you shouldn't really be using more than 2.5% CO2 if you want to do it right, also, what grade stainless steel is it
     
  11. Ton-up

    Ton-up Member

    Messages:
    1,285
    Location:
    Essex, England.
    That kingfisher's fantastic!
     
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  12. BirdmanJohn Member

    Messages:
    38
    Location:
    Sussex
    Ok so ... once again thanks for the earlier advice. Much better results tonight doing just what was suggested. I used a touch more power for the thicker spoons and basically moved faster. I am sure i will have a lot more questions ....

    J

    P.S. No idea what 'grade' stainless im using, its just old cutlery of varying types, how do you grade that?

    As for the gas mix, I don't doubt your expertise suggesting no more than 2% but I can tell you that 90% of the welds I did tonight were excellent and the other 10% were me just being a noob! The 86 / 14 seems perfectly adequate to weld cutlery successfully and neatly, the only bad results were down to me.

    Thanks for the nice comment on the kingfisher, these are some of the very first things I am welding so I'm pretty chuffed myself. Having said that I am making a lot of mistakes too and not just with the welding but the whole thing is a really useful learning experience. Every thing I have made or tried to make so far has taught me something.
     
  13. Richard.

    Richard. Member

    Messages:
    17,949
    Location:
    Cambridgeshire
    While the material and gas are not correct for the parent material I wouldn’t say they are solely responsible for the 2 issues the OP is having.
    He just simply wants to stick metal together for decoration purposes and I say in that case what he’s using is marginally adequate.
    First problem (burning through)
    Bad fit up, speed/voltage settings too high , too slow on travel.
    Second problem (little or no penetration)
    Wire speed/voltage too low.
     
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  14. If your just gobbing stuff together you will paobably be ok, you just need to sort your parameters out
     
  15. BirdmanJohn Member

    Messages:
    38
    Location:
    Sussex
    Im getting there! Thank you for all the feedback / advice. Alot still to learn of course but here is the latest creation ...
     
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  16. slim_boy_fat

    slim_boy_fat Forum Supporter

    That's brilliant! :thumbup:
     
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  17. Richard.

    Richard. Member

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    Simply Fantastic
     
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  18. TechnicAl

    TechnicAl Member

    Messages:
    6,160
    Location:
    Rotherham
    Cutlery is often 12%Cr steel....which isnt easy to weld with the correct set up.....

    More expensive stuff maybe 17% Cr steel....even more difficult to weld

    Sometimes Forks and Spoons are made from 28/8 (304L) and they dont need to be hard
    These can be welded more easily

    The Plain Cr steel will attract a magnet....the 18/8 wont or only slightly
     
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  19. BirdmanJohn Member

    Messages:
    38
    Location:
    Sussex
    That's very interesting TechAl. Can you elaborate more for the benefit of this layman? I have already noticed cutlery that is harder to weld than others and basically I avoid what I think are not going to work but the science to my logic is largely uneducated.

    Specifically, what am I looking for in the easiest cutlery to weld? what type? what is 28/8, what is 18/8 etc, all of these terms are alien to me.

    Many thanks

    J
    Edit ... basically, anything that I think has some sort of plate or different finish other than I might have found on basic school canteen style cutlery I don't use, have never been able to get them to bond sufficiently. Presumably this is exactly the reason you are talking about.

    Edit 2! .... I am using a WolfMig140 gas welder. With (typically I think) 0.8 or 0.9 copper coated wire and either an 80/20 or 86/14 argon to co2 mix. Really I am still Mmmm...Danone about with settings and making a lot of mistakes although the bird above was really useful and I picked up quite a few little technique improvements whilst doing it. Perhaps it was more luck than judgement that the bulk of the cutlery I used in it (30 odd knives and 15 or so spoons) were of the right type. They all seemed pretty generic standard cutlery which is why I picked them out the pile. having said that ... the two front side serving spoons have a slightly bronzy colour to them. They welded fine. What material are they likely to be?

    Any light you can shed on all of that would be hugely appreciated, thanks again.

    J
     
  20. Richard.

    Richard. Member

    Messages:
    17,949
    Location:
    Cambridgeshire
    In stainless steel we determine The grades by there Chromium and nickel content as a %.
    18/8 common name 304 is 18% chromium 8% nickel.
     
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