Penetrating oil

[Ross365]

Perhaps there is some confusion about "penetrating" oils? None of them can get through into a rusted and seized fastener, despite claims from the like of WD manufacturers to the contrary as there is nowhere for it to penetrate.

Is it your belief then that there is no degree of porosity in the rust through which low tension liquid can permeate? I thought that one of the reasons why rust goes on and on is that moisture (water) can permeate through rust, otherwise, rust would be a protective oxide, like the chromium oxide formed on stainless steel? Whether there also may be some "tips" of the threads which don't fully plug with rust, and so leave tiny pathways for liquid to get down is also a consideration. Does a semi-crystalline material like rust weaken (crack) when wetted; some materials do that; try cutting a thick-walled glass tube without wetting the initial scratch and see how much easier it snaps when wetted. Wetting the tips of cracks in many materials is a game changer.

I imagine that some engineering companies (oil platforms?) have studied all this and know the reality of the situation, but their info seems not to have penetrated its way in to the public domain and so pretty much all of this thread is just a collection of personal views but lacking data.

And certainly, the application of heat very often works, for obvious reasons; no data required there!

 

[Dapph2]

AI has presented me with this WRT oilrigs..


Removing very rusted nuts or bolts on oil rigs involves a combination of chemical and mechanical methods to ensure safety and efficiency. Here are the common techniques used:

• Penetrating Oils: Products like Kroil or PB B'laster are applied to the rusted nuts to penetrate the rust and loosen the fastener.
  
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• Heat Application: Using a propane torch or heat gun to heat the area around the bolt can help loosen the rusted bond.
  
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• Nut Splitters: These tools fracture the nut's collar by applying concentrated force, allowing for quick removal without damaging the bolt or surrounding components.
  
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• Hydraulic Nut Cutters: These tools use hydraulic pressure to cut through the rusted nut, making it easier to remove without damaging the flange face or gasket.
  
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• Owatrol Transyl: This lubricant and releasing oil can be used to loosen rusted bolts or nuts by applying it to the bolt and tapping it with a hammer.
  
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  These methods are essential for maintaining the integrity of equipment and preventing further corrosion on oil rigs. It's important to follow safety guidelines and use appropriate tools to ensure a safe removal process.
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• I've just googled the Owatrol Transyl.. Seems it's likely to be the best available for things like stuck pins . sheared through bolts & nuts I think I'll be getting some as it's also on eBay & I have a friend in need with a car that needs some suspension pins moving /removed.
  
  
  
  

 

[Ross365]

AI has presented me with this WRT oilrigs..

Removing very rusted nuts or bolts on oil rigs involves a combination of chemical and mechanical methods to ensure safety and efficiency. Here are the common techniques used:

• Penetrating Oils: Products like Kroil or PB B'laster are applied to the rusted nuts to penetrate the rust and loosen the fastener.

Interesting; it refers to products "like" Kroil and PB Blaster (are these available in the UK?) Wonder if Seafoam Deep Creep is a "like" product and that is available here.
Kroil and Blaster are often talked about on the very good US forum "Bob is the Oil Guy". There too, there are forums debating which is best https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/liquid-wrench-vs-pb-blaster-vs-seafoam-deep-creep.47088/ !

 

[oldbikedavey]

Frequently, I've just drilled into nuts axially, then split them with a sharp cold chisel.
That nobbles their mischief fairly well....

 

[PhillipM]

At this point I've tried almost everything going from PB to Bulldog and even acetone/atf + acetone/2.5wt damper oil. The latter seems, anecodocally, to creep the best. But it also doesn't seem to lubricate much you can still feel rusty fasteners trying to gall sometimes when you're winding them off. Sometimes I apply that to let it penetrate the rust and then put diesel or kerosene on to wick in after it for that reason.
I always end up back with Plusgas because it's a good mix of both and frankly just convenient vs mixing stuff up.

The only other thing I sometimes will use is Freeze and Release spray - but that really only works well on fasteners into small parts otherwise it can't drop the temperature fast enough to 'shock' the parts loose of the rust. Fine for track rod ends, does next to nothing on gearbox bolts or hub nuts, etc.

 

[addjunkie]

Frequently, I've just drilled into nuts axially, then split them with a sharp cold chisel.
That nobbles their mischief fairly well....

Works a treat if you can get good access to swing… with bigger stuff as discussed on the AI oil man above a good **** on each flat of a nut with a hammer or flat punch and hammer, helps hugely.

 

[8ob]

That is true, but sometimes it doesn't work out, no matter what you do.

Unfortunately though, sometimes the sneaky little sods can feel like the bond is breaking, around the same time the head/nut shears.

Admit it. We've all done it.

There is always the odd one that wont, that said when that happens I always kick myself for not being more patient.
Thanks for the heads up on the DP60 @Kram, never tried it and I am out of stock of my normal brand so I have ordered some.

Bob

 

[MattF]

when that happens I always kick myself for not being more patient.

I usually voice a few choice words at it.

 

[brightspark]

Hello Alan,

I don't find that these fluids do much for really tight rusted fasteners but I am fortunate still having an oxy\acetylene torch which rarely fails.

Alec

same, here . wouldnt be without oxy acetylene it gets used probably about 10 times a year .some jobs cant be done without it

 

[minimutly]

Is it your belief then that there is no degree of porosity in the rust through which low tension liquid can permeate? I thought that one of the reasons why rust goes on and on is that moisture (water) can permeate through rust, otherwise, rust would be a protective oxide, like the chromium oxide formed on stainless steel? Whether there also may be some "tips" of the threads which don't fully plug with rust, and so leave tiny pathways for liquid to get down is also a consideration. Does a semi-crystalline material like rust weaken (crack) when wetted; some materials do that; try cutting a thick-walled glass tube without wetting the initial scratch and see how much easier it snaps when wetted. Wetting the tips of cracks in many materials is a game changer.

I imagine that some engineering companies (oil platforms?) have studied all this and know the reality of the situation, but their info seems not to have penetrated its way in to the public domain and so pretty much all of this thread is just a collection of personal views but lacking data.

And certainly, the application of heat very often works, for obvious reasons; no data required there!

Normal for here then.
Are you American? Just wondering about the bold and underling , it's a lot nicer without it....

 

[Ross365]

Normal for here then.
Are you American? Just wondering about the bold and underling , it's a lot nicer without it....

I've spent a lot of time working with Americans over along period of time. Written style is a matter of opinion (or company dictat) , just like the choice of which penetrating oil to use.
Take a moment to think some more about the the "bold and the underling", which you referred to .
I note that have contributed nothing to the technical discussion of this thread, but that's OK