Parweld inverters?

[lexi]

Is it anything like a Garden Fete?

Alex

 

[AVENLEY 10]

Inverters have been around for a long time and seem to have been used in automotive use before welding to convert 12/24V to 240V in vehicles that require to be able to run mains appliances and they are really the modern replacement for the dynamotor a twin commutator dynamo that ran off 12V but produced 240V out the other end of the dynamo.Lots were sold in this country by mail order in the fifties/sixties being ex US army surpless.The major advances in recent years has been the ability to replace capacitors with small electronic components that are reliable and able to take high loads one reason why Max-Arc went bust they had the technology but could not build a reliable product at a price that would sell because of a lack of quality components.All that the Chinese have done is come into the market at a time when there are plenty of good quality components around, copy them take advantage of cheap labour and flood the market.The shipping costs are often more than the goods cost to buy in China.I Recently went to a shipping companies warehouse that was full to the rafters with goods all from China you name it it was there but the down side is quality control is non excistent as shown by a hydraulic jack that I recently purchased that carried the name of a premier French tool manufacturer third time out it failed turns out its Chinese so now I will be buying a Tangye jack at an eye watering price but know it will not let me down while supporting a UK company.

 

[DAVEWESTMIDS]

Invertor- Esab

ive got an esab 150 caddy arc, surplus to requirements now, butwas amazed how good it actually is , duty cycle is magnificient,
cant imagine anythingto compete with it, however a colleague reckons they are made in china, which cant be right -after all ive seen the new rovers and they are actually worse than ours!!
(i ve got a rover 75 four years old, 60k, on its fourth headgasket, second clutch, 2nd radiator,2nd gearbox etc....)
http://www.spinefex.com.au/product/images/Caddy Arc 150.pdf f

 

[irondarren]

I would hope Esab arent getting them made in china, otherwise to me that would look like Esab are turning themselves into a box mover rather than a quality maker. Ok you could say well they have quality control over a chinese factory but so did Mattel and look where that got them

 

[shenion]

Made in China may or may not be bad. It depends on the supplier on this side of the world.

You see the same unit sold by several companies. A few have specified top-tier components (i.e. Toshiba MOSFETS.)

It comes down to the distributer. ESAB is big enough to specify in their contract no parts substitution without approval, guarantee units are built to specifications and have china eat any costs when they fail to meet spec.

A box mover would take whatever China wants to send them.

I worked with a client have one of my designs supplied by China. It is a lot of work. You need to do lots of inspections, they will substitute parts at will. China had to eat a bunch of assembled boards as they changed the layout to use a cheap part that did not even work. Their so-called engineer got fired over it We were smrt enough to specify in the contract that the boards must meet specs and no substitution without approval.

Mattel will now tell you, you need to watch them closely ; they got burned by assuming what they get is always the same as the first samples. The good stuff coming from china has a US/UK representative over there 24/7 to keep an eye on things.

I don't know what ESAB does, but they are a name brand. I would assume they do much more than the box movers to guarantee quality. If they don't their good reputation will quickly go to pot.

 

[DIY Welding]

Parweld Inverters

Used to work for Esab, when they launched the caddy we where told they had built a inverter prod line in Sweden, they said a inverter was made every 30 seconds on this line, we had our doubts because for every 10 caddys sold we would get back 5, this was in the early days quality has improved but thought the early ones where made in China, then they moved production to Sweden

 

[Inverweld]

As i read on this forum regarding the chinese welders and products in general i see so much rubbish coming out of peoples mouth its not even funny. Firstly, made in china is the best and the worst. Almost every mass produces product from large manufacturers regarding tools, electronics etc are made in china under extreme supervision with the highest standards iso9000 factories with supreme grading product components. We are not going to get together and talk about how dell is making its laptops in china and how reliable they are. We only get together to talk about the crap products coming out of china that we had problems with. Regarding Iverters, it is the chinese who invented and patented the first mosfet inverter welder in 1988. In China there is the ever so often problem of open patents where the highest quality manufacturer came out with a supreme design with complete reliability but the 10,000 other companies copied the same design and model name/number and built it from low grade primitive built quality. So for any numb nut on here to suggest all Chinese welders are rubbish is a narrow minded person. Am i suggesting China makes the best welders or designs? NO, im merely saying that there is a handful of high quality manufacturers that can and will rival some of europes greatests. So next time something comes up regarding any countries products think of it with an open mind and say to yourself hey, i cannot blame an entire nation for some crap quality manufacturers being exported to us. Bottom line, if you have experienced problems with chinese welders its probably because they are all cheap primitive build copies. All the biggest manufcaturers have already signed exclusive agreements in every western country and no one can purchase direct such as Parweld. Parweld is a big company with history... do you think they just grabbed some rubbish manufacturer in china with primitive build quality to ruin themselves? No way, they have everything tested etc down to the bone. What i say is the truth because i have an open mind not some tunnel vision like some others

 

[AVENLEY 10]

As I have mentioned in another post most major western manufacturers have been active in Chinese manufacturing for at least a decade either backing local manufacturers or setting up manufacturing plants to produce previous generation products for the local market, also any product that requires to be handbuilt or labour intensive is usually made in China,for example most lithium batteries for the latest cordless power tools are made there because they are slow labour intensive items to make but quality is still a problem with one major power tool manufacturer with drawing a batch of faulty batteries just before they went to market.
Corruption is a major problem with China and many companies have had patent protected products copied with the prospects of legal action against the guilty party non-exsistent if they can find them.As for a patent on inverters was it reliable and was it developed as an offshoot of the Chinese arms industry,im sure companies at the top end of inverters like Kemppi,Fronius and Lorch would have thrown in the towel and just badged a Chinese inverter if it was reliable and cheap to produce.You may call me narrow minded but a good European product with a proven track record and aftersales support will always get my backing and I have the knowledge that im keeping European(British included)skilled workers in a job.Im sure Mattel would welcome your comments on Chinese goods.

 

[Inverweld]

As I have mentioned in another post most major western manufacturers have been active in Chinese manufacturing for at least a decade either backing local manufacturers or setting up manufacturing plants to produce previous generation products for the local market, also any product that requires to be handbuilt or labour intensive is usually made in China,for example most lithium batteries for the latest cordless power tools are made there because they are slow labour intensive items to make but quality is still a problem with one major power tool manufacturer with drawing a batch of faulty batteries just before they went to market.Corruption is a major problem with China and many companies have had patent protected products copied with the prospects of legal action against the guilty party non-exsistent if they can find them.As for a patent on inverters was it reliable and was it developed as an offshoot of the Chinese arms industry,im sure companies at the top end of inverters like Kemppi,Fronius and Lorch would have thrown in the towel and just badged a Chinese inverter if it was reliable and cheap to produce.You may call me narrow minded but a good European product with a proven track record and aftersales support will always get my backing and I have the knowledge that im keeping European(British included)skilled workers in a job.Im sure Mattel would welcome your comments on Chinese goods.

As you suggested , I will call you narrow minded. Saying Kempii, Fronius, and Lorch would rebadege if welders were reliable and cheap in China is pure ignorance. You know very well that they dont want to follow the Easb, Lincoln, Boc etc bandwagon making machines in China for lower labour costs. China has some of the best welding equipment with relibailty and efficiency globally whether you want to acknowledge it or not. Kempii, Fronius, and Lorch would love to at least manufacture their welders in China for sheer financial pluses but they know all the simple minded consumers will say " its made in china" so its not the same quality or reliabilty as the original even though its 100% identical. Now since you can bring up the matel or the few other "made in china" problems that have arisen why dont you sit here and list the millions of companies who have outsourced to china with complete reliabilty being sustained>????? or would it be that you might be sitting here typing those success companies for years on end.

 

[irondarren]

Made in china means quality ask mattel.

 

[malcolm]

Which inverter manufacturers would you recommend from China (or elsewhere)

 

[Inverweld]

Made in china means quality ask mattel.

Well Irondarren you sig says it all "Qualified Idiot" Your just a typical one sided narrow viewed person who still has yet to realise that almost every product these days is "Made In China". Like i said before people will not sit there talking about the millions of companies with complete success in China but only the few companies who have been shafted.

 

[irondarren]

Box movers will always try to justify the products they sell. The major problem with china is as mattel found out, much of the work is sub-contracted out to other companies. Its often the sub-contractor who pulls a fast one and tries to cut corners. Which can turn a average quality product into a poor quality one. Other issues with china is its lack of safety, towards its work force, but if your happy with knowing you got a product cheap and have no regard to the working conditions of those that made the product, or environmental issues. Then china is the place to buy from. please enjoy your chinese made products.
Personally i have issues with the quality of some chinese made products, and the fact that china has little regard for its work force or there welfare, and of course china is pumping tonnes and tonnes of pollutants out every day, in the name of cheap products.

 

[malcolm]

Well Irondarren you sig says it all "Qualified Idiot" Your just a typical one sided narrow viewed person who still has yet to realise that almost every product these days is "Made In China".

Please keep it civil. You have 4 posts and have already insulted the whole forum, Avenley 10 and Irondarren. That is not a good way to start off on the forum.

Do you have a specific point to make? It's all very well telling us that some welders made in China might not be rubbish, and it's a perfectly believable point, but not a lot of use unless we discuss which ones or perhaps why.

 

[Inverweld]

Please keep it civil. You have 4 posts and have already insulted the whole forum, Avenley 10 and Irondarren. That is not a good way to start off on the forum.

Do you have a specific point to make? It's all very well telling us that some welders made in China might not be rubbish, and it's a perfectly believable point, but not a lot of use unless we discuss which ones or perhaps why.

Malcolm with all do respect, I can understand what you are saying but do you also see how they are just talking the same narrow minded nonsense without assuming a broad minded position like yourself. No pun intended to them as well, but its pretty much like a debate so to speak. Now regarding the top names in China im sure some could guess here and suggest what they think or have heard and ill kindly reply with my point of view. I do not want to come on here dropping names like some rep or agent of a manufacturer or company so this is why i dont. Now im sure you might wonder who I am or what i do and why i stand to my point so strongly. I have a vast electronics and science background and I was sent by the company i work for to test and study many different large manufacturers in asia for the companies future inverter welder line. I spent 1 year on this mission and visited every level you could imagine of quality. From the supreme giants that all the global companies are using to the trade companies and copies that the general public are getting ahold of with unreal primitive built techniques. Absolutely absurd (sp). So i dont wanna say names do to conflicts of interest.

 

[malcolm]

I see where you are coming from now. You've got to be really careful with the written word on forums not to appear to insult people, otherwise they will be inclined to take the opposite view rather than have a good debate that might further knowledge.

I realise some major manufacturers are having things made in China, and have chosen good companies and are controlling quality. But who knows whether the welder brand nobody has heard of is any good or not.

Anyone buying a major brand welder is going to expect the brand to perform well no matter where they make the thing. If it goes wrong they'll have support. That stuff isn't obviously Chinese.

Stuff that is obviously Chinese and is more visible to the DIY market is the Chinese AC/DC Inverter TIG avaliable through eBay for £300 plus £180 postage. I'd be interested if you have come across these manufacturers.

The most common are Butters clones with no sensible UK distribution (Mitech and Greenbird spring to mind) but generally if someone asks about them on the forum we suggest the buyer checks out how support might work if things went wrong.

 

[AVENLEY 10]

I wonder if Inverweld has had any experience as an end user of some of these Chinese products.In my experience all have under performed and have all been branded by a well known company who should in no way be using suppliers of poor provenance.Hydraulic jacking equipment that is not strong enough or fails when you need it most,a lawn mower with a chinese engine made by one of their largest small engine manufacturers that had to be repaired by myself to start it out of the box(engine brake/stop linkage not assembled correctly in the factory and no help from manufacturer apart from a premium rate helpline number).Some of the materials used were of questionable quality as was some of the design.Spark plug and lead replaced with top brand German parts.Also I would ask Inverweld to check the national newspapers for product recalls.One that caught my eye recently was a Dremell fretsaw that might have a casing that could become live so much for Chinese electical engineering and assembly

 

[matt1978]

As some of you may or may not know, I am an employee of Lorch, which some kind gentleman pointed out, make some of the finest welding power-sources in the world. I have read this thread with some interest and I am not going to comment on the quality of product which comes from China, as you are all aware, some of its bad, some of its very bad but there is also some decent machines to come from there.

I believe that its up to the individual to balance, the cost price against performance and build quality and after-sales care and make an informed decision on which unit to buy.

What I do object too is the big manufacturers who source some equipment from China, but try to pass off to the end customer that its made in there own factory in there country of origin.

Just for the record, we don't source any of our equipment from China, its all hand built in out facility in Stuttgart, and that's the way we are going to keep it.

 

[irondarren]

Matt i believe there is a big gulf between the occasional user and the professional user. If a welding machine breaks down for the occasional user, its a bind, it means what they wanted to weld cant be welded until either the machine is repaired or replaced, and if that takes a couple of weeks its just really annoying. For the professional user its different if a welding machine breaks it means you cant complete a job until the machine is fixed, which means you cant get paid to weld, not only does it mean no money but would mean an annoyed client because there job isnt complete. you can swing it for a day or two but after that you need a repaired machine or you will be forced to buy a new one. With the likes of lorch and other major brands they are aware, that as a professional you are relying on the quality of manufacture of there product to earn money, and as a rule have good service back up. With the cheaper machines manufactured in china this service backup is just not available. meaning a break down in one of these machines leaves one option to go and purchase a new machine.

Matt out of interest as you work for lorch does that mean we get a forum discount on thier welding machines? (worth asking, always nice to get your hands on quality equipement at discount prices)

 

[AVENLEY 10]

Well said Matt agree totally always had a high regard for Lorch but it always seemed your distribution network in the UK never was very wide,a similar thing could be said of INE another good brand.Also the following post was spot on the money