the snooper
getting older by the day
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not my pads i just hunted the pics down for you
- Thread starter chunkolini
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not my pads i just hunted the pics down for you
chunkolini
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Great work.
Will report back.
Will report back.
Wedg1e
They call me Mr. Bodge-angles
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Hmmm, not quite. If you take the pads out the caliper can slide until it hits the disc, so there's plenty of travel available. The caliper body pulls the inboard pad toward the disc as the piston pushes the outboard one - working against the caliper body as a fulcrum, as it were. The pad sliding pins move with the caliper body.
My thought would be that the bores in the caliper body for the slides are worn, letting the unit twist on the slides.
Chunko, I suspect you'll be miffed to find how little meat there is on new pads, those pics make them look, er, chunkier than they really are. The same pads are used on a few Hondas, one wonders if there's an element of unsprung weight-saving going on... they certainly get a hard time on the back of my ST13 (linked, with ABS).
the snooper
getting older by the day
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yeah your right of course the caliper will slide on its mountings not those pins 
dont know what i was thinking of ive had a long day 
well thats my excuse and im sticking to it
but still there is wear there of the piston wouldnt be so far out
dont know what i was thinking of ive had a long day well thats my excuse and im sticking to itbut still there is wear there of the piston wouldnt be so far out
Wedg1e
They call me Mr. Bodge-angles
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yeah your right of course the caliper will slide on its mountings not those pins
but still there is wear there of the piston wouldnt be so far out
I'm still pretty sure that the caliper on my 1300 Pan Euro has a lot of piston exposed even with new pads: I've had a rummage through the factory workshop manual but there are no pics of the calipers square-on, only line drawings which look to be generic sketches for the pad wear indicators.
However there is a pic showing the rear caliper dismantled, note how long the pistons are... three pistons of course due to the linked brake system.
As Chunko intimated, the pipework drawing for the combined/ ABS system is like one of those kids puzzles where you have to work out which child is holding the kite on the end of multitudinous tangled lines
CKJDJK
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Have you checked the thickness of the disk. Check its not warped. Minimum thickness should be marked on it and should be messured mid way in the wear area. This would allow the pistons to be further out plus the 2 mm of pad wear.
You could try pushing the pistons fully home with the bleed nipple open and a tube attached as if to bleed them, and see how much piston is exposed. Clamp them with a small clamp or similar and pressure bleed the system. Keep clamped and check the pedal and it should be very firm. If not then the master cylinder is goosed or there is air in system. Could be the master cylinder not opening the relife port properly (I assume the pedal and push rod are adjusted properly so the slave cyl piston can come fully back). Once that is right, then look at refitting the caliper and pump the pistons out keeping the fluid topped up. Pedal should still be firm but with a little travel as this is the pistons being pulled back by the seals to allow running clearance for the pads (or the barke would drag and over heat).
If the brackect is bent then you would see clearance between the pad area and the disc or the pads would be worn tapered. play in the pins would allow some self alignment but too much would cause the pistons to be pushed back too far and hence long pedal travel. This would probably show after riding but not nessassarily prior to that.
You could try pushing the pistons fully home with the bleed nipple open and a tube attached as if to bleed them, and see how much piston is exposed. Clamp them with a small clamp or similar and pressure bleed the system. Keep clamped and check the pedal and it should be very firm. If not then the master cylinder is goosed or there is air in system. Could be the master cylinder not opening the relife port properly (I assume the pedal and push rod are adjusted properly so the slave cyl piston can come fully back). Once that is right, then look at refitting the caliper and pump the pistons out keeping the fluid topped up. Pedal should still be firm but with a little travel as this is the pistons being pulled back by the seals to allow running clearance for the pads (or the barke would drag and over heat).
If the brackect is bent then you would see clearance between the pad area and the disc or the pads would be worn tapered. play in the pins would allow some self alignment but too much would cause the pistons to be pushed back too far and hence long pedal travel. This would probably show after riding but not nessassarily prior to that.
chunkolini
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Well boys and girls.
I spent half of last night debating this in my head. Both options make sense and shoot the other down in flames.
I almost went back downstairs at midnight to have another look.
So this morning
I put on my garage suit, manky fleece, garage hat; get coffee and Guns and Roses CD, determined stride out of the front door.
Enter the Ratcave.
The sun is shining straight up the **** of my bike, I looks down the caliper and the pads are touching the disc at the front end of the caliper and about 5mm away from the disc at the back. Looks as though the bracket is twisted/bent.
Push the pistons back in again, wiggle everything about again, still the same.
Apply pressure to pedal and watch the bracket being moved in to close up the gap on the pin thingy.
We did clamp off the hose and check for pressure yesterday, a useful trick I would never have thought of.
Next thing, how as the brake working before I started messing with it, and how did the casting get bent?
Off to fleabay to order the newish bracket. Will report back.
Grateful to everybody for their input.
Chunko'.
I spent half of last night debating this in my head. Both options make sense and shoot the other down in flames.
I almost went back downstairs at midnight to have another look.
So this morning
I put on my garage suit, manky fleece, garage hat; get coffee and Guns and Roses CD, determined stride out of the front door.
Enter the Ratcave.
The sun is shining straight up the **** of my bike, I looks down the caliper and the pads are touching the disc at the front end of the caliper and about 5mm away from the disc at the back. Looks as though the bracket is twisted/bent.
Push the pistons back in again, wiggle everything about again, still the same.
Apply pressure to pedal and watch the bracket being moved in to close up the gap on the pin thingy.
We did clamp off the hose and check for pressure yesterday, a useful trick I would never have thought of.
Next thing, how as the brake working before I started messing with it, and how did the casting get bent?
Off to fleabay to order the newish bracket. Will report back.
Grateful to everybody for their input.
Chunko'.
octo0072000
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them thare pads
take the pads out and swap them round see if it still look bent
unless you are 110% sure you didn't swap them over when you removed them
failing that ring honda dealer you bought it from ask to speak to mechanic and see what he says also ask them to measure a new pad for you to see how much wear there is on yours
take the pads out and swap them round see if it still look bent
unless you are 110% sure you didn't swap them over when you removed them
failing that ring honda dealer you bought it from ask to speak to mechanic and see what he says also ask them to measure a new pad for you to see how much wear there is on yours
chunkolini
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cant put the pads in the wrong side, they are left and right handed. Ahem some idiot did start putting them in back to front.
Caliper slides perfectly.
I had a thought today. the pads were binding a little bit, common on sliding calipers in the morning. On Friday I came out of the garage backwards and they made a lovely baritone sax noise as the slid on the disc. This friction cant have bent the mounting?
Ordred a new mount this am for £20.00 all up, so not too bad.
Looked at some brand new pads, not a aholw bunch thicker than mine. The problem is definitely th caliper not being aligned along the axis of the disc,.Oh and the little index thingy is lined up.
Should get the bit tomorrow.
Chunko;
Caliper slides perfectly.
I had a thought today. the pads were binding a little bit, common on sliding calipers in the morning. On Friday I came out of the garage backwards and they made a lovely baritone sax noise as the slid on the disc. This friction cant have bent the mounting?
Ordred a new mount this am for £20.00 all up, so not too bad.
Looked at some brand new pads, not a aholw bunch thicker than mine. The problem is definitely th caliper not being aligned along the axis of the disc,.Oh and the little index thingy is lined up.
Should get the bit tomorrow.
Chunko;
octo0072000
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can't see backing up causing it to bend it might have been like it since you bought just not as bad now weather getting colder and damper pads clinging more maybe sticking in the holder a bit
chunkolini
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Right
Fitted a replacement mounting, exactly the same, tried new pads, the old ones are getting a bit tatty looking anyway all this levering on and off.
Just the same.
Here is a better picture of the gap on the stopper bolt, (minus caliper)as I push the pedal the gap closes right up using all the travel on the pedal
Right!!! says I.
Got a pair of washers and popped them in to the gap all seems fine, plenty of pressure at the pedal not maximum retardation, but can lock the wheel if I try, I may have got a bit of grease on the pads after all this fannying about.
I figure ride it aound for a few days and have a look at the pads and see if they are wearing evenly.
But where has that gap come from? I did not even touch that bolt during my messing about. The tyre is wearing straight, we tried a straight edge along the wheels.
Chunko'.
Fitted a replacement mounting, exactly the same, tried new pads, the old ones are getting a bit tatty looking anyway all this levering on and off.
Just the same.
Here is a better picture of the gap on the stopper bolt, (minus caliper)as I push the pedal the gap closes right up using all the travel on the pedal
Right!!! says I.
Got a pair of washers and popped them in to the gap all seems fine, plenty of pressure at the pedal not maximum retardation, but can lock the wheel if I try, I may have got a bit of grease on the pads after all this fannying about.
I figure ride it aound for a few days and have a look at the pads and see if they are wearing evenly.
But where has that gap come from? I did not even touch that bolt during my messing about. The tyre is wearing straight, we tried a straight edge along the wheels.
Chunko'.
Tiggy_dorset
It looks just like a bought one!
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I was just considering that one myself, William, then I saw your reply.
Also has the spindle been inserted from the correct side of the machine? Some spindles have a machined shoulder acting as a spacer
chunkolini
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Spacer is a part of the caliper carrier, I had wondered that myself but no way is on the wrong side.
Been out on it just now and tried the brake out from just dragging it to emergency stopping and using just the back brake on it's own, seems to be working fine.
At the weekend I wil pop the pads out and have a look at them and see if they are wearing uniformly .
Chunko'.
Been out on it just now and tried the brake out from just dragging it to emergency stopping and using just the back brake on it's own, seems to be working fine.
At the weekend I wil pop the pads out and have a look at them and see if they are wearing uniformly .
Chunko'.
Hi again Chunko, still not seen a Pan yet locally.
A bit like buses, none when you want one then six come along
Spacer is a part of the caliper carrier, I had wondered that myself but no way is on the wrong side.
Just checked the diagram I mentioned previously and Snoopers caliper diagram and the spacer/boss which is part of caliper carrier is visible.
However, if you look at this diagram (rear wheel ) on page #106 in this manual http://www.judo-lochristi.be/pan_european_st1100/pdf/onderdelenlijst.pdf
Item #4 ( part no. 42312-MAE-010 ) is named as collar, rear brake and fits on the spindle at that end !
Has yours got one ?
Just wondering, when it went back for that remedial work just after you bought it, would this have entailed them having to remove the rear wheel ?
chunkolini
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When it went back the whole rear end was dissambled, new swing arm fitted.
In July this year the rear wheel was out in France when I had a puncture.
Cant see pt no 42312-MAE-010 'item 4 brake caliper rear'? this is the same caliper as on mine I now know it intimately.
Fund it by googling the part no!
Not sure, is it another spacer that goes inboard of the caliper mount?
here it is http://www.st-1100.com/st1100-parts-fiche-rear-wheel-st1100s.html
If it goes inboard of the caliper mount it might be the sucker, but there does not seem to be space for another component.
Off to the ratcave...... back in a minute.
Close up photo of that area.
There does seem to a small area of spindle visible above the clamp, 2mm ish.
Looking at the parts fiche it does look as though I might be missing this collar. In the photo there is what looks to be 19, the dust seal but nowt after that.
???
Chunko'.
In July this year the rear wheel was out in France when I had a puncture.
Cant see pt no 42312-MAE-010 'item 4 brake caliper rear'? this is the same caliper as on mine I now know it intimately.
Fund it by googling the part no!
Not sure, is it another spacer that goes inboard of the caliper mount?
here it is http://www.st-1100.com/st1100-parts-fiche-rear-wheel-st1100s.html
If it goes inboard of the caliper mount it might be the sucker, but there does not seem to be space for another component.
Off to the ratcave...... back in a minute.
Close up photo of that area.
There does seem to a small area of spindle visible above the clamp, 2mm ish.
Looking at the parts fiche it does look as though I might be missing this collar. In the photo there is what looks to be 19, the dust seal but nowt after that.
???
Chunko'.
