Pakistani machine shop

[8ob]

, house prices spiraled out of control which in turn caused everything else to get spendy , if prices go up so do rates which increases costs on sales of products ,which gives competitours a open door,,

Many moons ago a minister stood up in parliament and said that the housing stocks of the UK were for people to live in and not to profit by.

Bob

 

[Windy Miller]

People NEED cheap, BECAUSE the cost of living is rising, and salaries/wages aren't.

Fixed that for you Graham!

 

[pressbrake1]

It's not that simple. This junk enables higher value business to take place. How many business owners on this forum would be able to operate if they didn't have access to low cost foreign tooling? Home made supplies are expensive and stifle business, having basic components available for cheap, and using them to manufacture something more specialist is a good economic model.

But there’s no jobs above min wage.
I’m a business owner and I avoid junk as it’s unreliable and contaminates the job, so I can’t have that
Obviously you’re not a bottom feeder like me and make money in this situation, people like me cease to be part of the supply chain as a small manufacturer because the factories that bought are gone and the only jobs are minimal wage .
I’d scrap my stuff tomorrow if I could get a job but being a picker at Amazon is t my thing financially

May I ask what you do as you’re obviously not affected by the job situation?

 

[rcx132]

But there’s no jobs above min wage.
I’m a business owner and I avoid junk as it’s unreliable and contaminates the job, so I can’t have that
Obviously you’re not a bottom feeder like me and make money in this situation, people like me cease to be part of the supply chain as a small manufacturer because the factories that bought are gone and the only jobs are minimal wage .
I’d scrap my stuff tomorrow if I could get a job but being a picker at Amazon is t my thing financially

May I ask what you do as you’re obviously not affected by the job situation?

You have some very good points, and it's too easy to talk about economic models and forget about the people on the ground.

I was a consultant which is where I learnt some of this economics stuff. But before that I struggled for 15 years running a small software house. When that failed I found myself unemployable. I sent thousands of CVs but couldn't even get a job as a security guard. Eventually a large consultancy took the risk with me. They deployed me as a low level analyst and I did well. It turned out that all that tech knowledge and my ability to apply it to business and enterprise models was valuable. I was getting moved up a role every three months and before I knew it I was in a high level consulting role. I consider myself lucky. I've helped a number of other people follow the same path as well, and am always keen to help. I have since moved back to business tech consulting for personal reasons.

 

[pressbrake1]

You have some very good points, and it's too easy to talk about economic models and forget about the people on the ground.

I was a consultant which is where I learnt some of this economics stuff. But before that I struggled for 15 years running a small software house. When that failed I found myself unemployable. I sent thousands of CVs but couldn't even get a job as a security guard. Eventually a large consultancy took the risk with me. They deployed me as a low level analyst and I did well. It turned out that all that tech knowledge and my ability to apply it to business and enterprise models was valuable. I was getting moved up a role every three months and before I knew it I was in a high level consulting role. I consider myself lucky. I've helped a number of other people follow the same path as well, and am always keen to help. I have since moved back to business tech consulting for personal reasons.

Good business has no morals ,ethics ( I don’t mean the pretend inclusion statements) or patriotism and I don’t mean the banner waving type.
This is never good and possibly very short term

 

[rcx132]

Good business has no morals ,ethics ( I don’t mean the pretend inclusion statements) or patriotism and I don’t mean the banner waving type.
This is never good and possibly very short term

We're talking here about our national model, which is primarily based on trade, innovation, strong regulatory framework and skilled workforce. I wouldn't say that's an immoral model. Things have got tough due to recent events, including the conflict in Ukraine, but don't forget that the reason the UK is fairing worse than our peers is because of what we ourselves opted to do in 2016.

 

[jenki]

Interesting that no one has mentioned the Banks we were supposed to move to a 'post industrial society' led by the 'Big Bang' I'll give you 2 examples of Bank economics at Rail Privatisation DMU's which BR bought outright for about £500,000 per unit were being leased for about £450,000 per year by the Train Leasing companies. The privatised Water Companies started life with no debts today their total debt is estimated at £54 billion we are paying for that.

 

[rcx132]

Interesting that no one has mentioned the Banks we were supposed to move to a 'post industrial society' led by the 'Big Bang' I'll give you 2 examples of Bank economics at Rail Privatisation DMU's which BR bought outright for about £500,000 per unit were being leased for about £450,000 per year by the Train Leasing companies. The privatised Water Companies started life with no debts today their total debt is estimated at £54 billion we are paying for that.

Rail privatisation was done badly, in a way that meant the operators had monopolies. UK rail privatisation is now used as an example of how not to privatise.

 

[Mikes]

I think it's all more fundamental than has been stated. As a nation, we have been pushed to aspire to higher things. Schools pushed kids towards university, higher education and the like rather than the previous years where you went to a job or maybe a job with an apprenticeship. Now very few of the kids leaving school would want to do an engineering type job.
Earlier this week, I went to a small engineering company in the east Midlands. The owner was saying that he could always take on more work but couldn't get the staff. His two main engineers were both probably in their early 60s. They had one young lad who was the son of one of these two. The owner said that when they advertise, the youngsters start and give up within a few weeks. It looked a nice friendly place to work and in my younger days I wouldn't have minded joining them as the work was mixed and interesting.
Think this just about sums-up a lot of the problem.
The other great difficulty (and I'm sure pressbrake 1 will find this all too familiar) is the lack of suitable workshop space for industry. Around here, the industrial estates are all re-developed into 'business parks' and trade counter space. Mention that you want a unit to do engineering work and you won't get past go with the letting agents. The councils don't help by putting many restrictions on industrial units that it becomes all too clear that they just don't want engineering there.
My local council happily allow industrial space to be flattened and housing crammed in. Heaven knows where they think all of the people are going to work but it certainly won't be in their near vicinity.

 

[pressbrake1]

We're talking here about our national model, which is primarily based on trade, innovation, strong regulatory framework and skilled workforce. I wouldn't say that's an immoral model. Things have got tough due to recent events, including the conflict in Ukraine, but don't forget that the reason the UK is fairing worse than our peers is because of what we ourselves opted to do in 2016.

I don’t think you understood what I meant
Business is about money and nothing else matters so out source labour materials everything because it’s about profit

I was made redundant in 2000. Every one of us was replaced by Czech employees on min wage then eventually operations were moved to Serbia.
It was a sound business decision but sucked

I remember when you could understand the person at a call centre now you get AI or pidgin English. I actually gave up trying to sort out a go daddy problem as I just couldn’t understand .
Moving to India was sound business but it sucked

We closed steel plants to bring in material from Odesa, sound financial decision but that’s gone wrong..

 

[pressbrake1]

I think it's all more fundamental than has been stated. As a nation, we have been pushed to aspire to higher things. Schools pushed kids towards university, higher education and the like rather than the previous years where you went to a job or maybe a job with an apprenticeship. Now very few of the kids leaving school would want to do an engineering type job.
Earlier this week, I went to a small engineering company in the east Midlands. The owner was saying that he could always take on more work but couldn't get the staff. His two main engineers were both probably in their early 60s. They had one young lad who was the son of one of these two. The owner said that when they advertise, the youngsters start and give up within a few weeks. It looked a nice friendly place to work and in my younger days I wouldn't have minded joining them as the work was mixed and interesting.
Think this just about sums-up a lot of the problem.
The other great difficulty (and I'm sure pressbrake 1 will find this all too familiar) is the lack of suitable workshop space for industry. Around here, the industrial estates are all re-developed into 'business parks' and trade counter space. Mention that you want a unit to do engineering work and you won't get past go with the letting agents. The councils don't help by putting many restrictions on industrial units that it becomes all too clear that they just don't want engineering there.
My local council happily allow industrial space to be flattened and housing crammed in. Heaven knows where they think all of the people are going to work but it certainly won't be in their near vicinity.

I mention that a lot
If a kids got brains you hope for university to do a useful degree. As you should
These people from a humble background would have gone into skilled work back in the day which has now left a void to be filled.

So we now have the idiots who should have been general labours and mangle pullers becoming tradeys and we’ve seen those results .

 

[rcx132]

I don’t think you understood what I meant
Business is about money and nothing else matters so out source labour materials everything because it’s about profit

I was made redundant in 2000. Every one of us was replaced by Czech employees on min wage then eventually operations were moved to Serbia.
It was a sound business decision but sucked

I remember when you could understand the person at a call centre now you get AI or pidgin English. I actually gave up trying to sort out a go daddy problem as I just couldn’t understand .
Moving to India was sound business but it sucked

We closed steel plants to bring in material from Odesa, sound financial decision but that’s gone wrong..

I probably did mis-understand you a bit.

But if that cheaper steel means that the cars we build are cheaper, then more people can afford cars, more cars are sold, re-generating jobs. Not to mention that we now have an entire economy that uses the cheaper transport.

Blocking cheap imports is a concept called protectionism, and it doesn't work out well.

 

[pressbrake1]

I probably did mis-understand you a bit.

But just because something is a sound business decision doesn't make it overall bad. Why should you make steel in the UK if you can get good enough quality steel abroad for cheaper? If that cheaper steel means that the cars we build are cheaper, then more people can afford cars, more cars are sold, re-generating jobs. Not to mention that we now have an entire economy that uses the cheaper transport.

Because you loose the ability to make a vital material. You loose the skills forever that can make the steel, it’s not just infrastructure.
You cause more pollution by moving millions of tonnes of steel and you cause more pollution using unregulated plants.
You’ve created a long supply chain that adds cost and can break

And you get poor material, something that is causing me a lot of trouble right now.

I think our differences in opinion as a engineer and small business owner compared to a analyst show in our responses.
You don’t need both kidneys or both lungs but it’s not for the best

 

[pressbrake1]

Must add we don’t really make affordable cars here other than Nissan and a few assembly plants.
Unless you was just making up a scenario there’s nothing cheap about transportation these days . I had a lez letter saying just buy a new van . The days of affordable vans are long gone!

 

[rcx132]

Because you loose the ability to make a vital material. You loose the skills forever that can make the steel, it’s not just infrastructure.
You cause more pollution by moving millions of tonnes of steel and you cause more pollution using unregulated plants.
You’ve created a long supply chain that adds cost and can break

And you get poor material, something that is causing me a lot of trouble right now.

I think our differences in opinion as a engineer and small business owner compared to a analyst show in our responses.
You don’t need both kidneys or both lungs but it’s not for the best

I appreciate the civilised explanation of our different view points. I'm sorry to hear that a lot of people are struggling now. I even hear it in the school run queues, parents saying they no longer heat their houses except when their kids are home. It's saddening.

 

[gaz1]

I probably did mis-understand you a bit. But here's the thing:

Why should you make steel in the UK if you can get good enough quality steel abroad for cheaper? If that cheaper steel means that the cars we build are cheaper, then more people can afford cars, more cars are sold, re-generating jobs. Not to mention that we now have an entire economy that uses the cheaper transport.

Blocking cheap imports is a concept called protectionism, and it doesn't work out well.

and some other countrys invest in there industry the steel industry is helped by the chinese gov

with every export money is no longer spent here in the uk

more uk jobs means more money is being spent

peoples want for better things keeps the economy going less money being spent less growth is acheived

make people tighten there belts the less money is being spent the uk system is being crippled by prices and not enough wage to keep the flow going

whilst the rich save it the middle class spend it and so does the poor class even the ones on the dole help the economy

 

[gaz1]

as goes for the banks crash we should have had a housing crash in 2008 many people should have lost there homes due to the banks fault

but someone shored up the housing and kept the prices high as many in london wouldnt have liked there homes being devalued

we never officialy pulled out of that recesssion properly as we didnt have enough factorys producing to sell unlike in 2008 area world war 2 where we pulled out of recession far faster and grew 10 times faster

I probably did mis-understand you a bit.

But if that cheaper steel means that the cars we build are cheaper, then more people can afford cars, more cars are sold, re-generating jobs. Not to mention that we now have an entire economy that uses the cheaper transport.

Blocking cheap imports is a concept called protectionism, and it doesn't work out well.

and whos going to drive them as you would need to get alot of the cars in the uk off the road first before new cars are bought

and the cars are cheap enough anyway even the new electric cars arnt cheap no offense but who wants to pay 30,000 for a shell as the battery they dont own

i wouldnt and dont see where they get the prices from

cars dont keep the economy going wagons do delivering your goods and your food they also deliver your materials for repairs and many other stuff

 

[8ob]

Uk has been doing well on the export front, trouble is the companies at the forefront are highly mechanised/automated and don't really employ that many people. With the UK having over10 million economically inactive people you would have thought there would have been some kind of financial incentive to make it a bit easier to employ/utilise these people. Even if it was only to make this country a better place to be instead of the litter strewn, potholed and filthy hithole its become.

Bob

 

[gaz1]

im going to post this link up as i dont want to make it political the reference is only used to point too

how well we pulled out of a reccession in 1945 compared to the digital age of now 2008 yet in 2023 it will be even worse to pull out of it

the graph shows with industry behind us and people spending on items our economy had the biggest growth

The Tories just got a stark warning to 'learn the lessons' of the past

With economic chaos looming, the TUC has come out with an alternative 'road map' out of recession. And there's no austerity in sight.

www.thecanary.co

 

[pressbrake1]

Uk has been doing well on the export front, trouble is the companies at the forefront are highly mechanised/automated and don't really employ that many people. With the UK having over10 million economically inactive people you would have thought there would have been some kind of financial incentive to make it a bit easier to employ/utilise these people. Even if it was only to make this country a better place to be instead of the litter strewn, potholed and filthy hithole its become.

Bob

If it wasn’t for export I’d go under!
If it wasn’t for Americans and Europeans wanting British made goods it would be over
I suppose if I got good at growing smelly plants the Essex economy would support me