Normal battery on a start/stop vehicle?

[Kayos]

What year is yours?

While looking for a battery for mine I saw quite a few references that basically said fitting a non stop/start battery was enough to switch the system off?

I can't see how, unless the stop/start battery has electronics in it?

 

[Morrisman]

My daughter’s Vauxhall Mocha diesel switches off every time she stops, even when the motor is not even reading on the temp gauge. She only works 2 miles from home so it rarely gets up to full operational temp. My Diesel Mondeo is just as slow to warm up.

 

[BrokenBiker]

What year is yours?

While looking for a battery for mine I saw quite a few references that basically said fitting a non stop/start battery was enough to switch the system off?

I can't see how, unless the stop/start battery has electronics in it?

It's a 2010 pre Face, with a start stop battery fitted

 

[BrokenBiker]

There is a chance previous owner disabled it...the DPF and EGR have been mapped out/removed so may have done more to it.

The 'eco' button seems to work, with it on it tells me when to change up and says start stop is active so more likely it either hasn't been told it had a battery change or it's just too far past it's best for it to function.

I'll be putting a normal battery on it for now while I look into it as need the car daily. Once I've figured out if the start stop has been disabled or not I'll buy a battery accordingly

 

[Kayos]

I keep seeing more reasons to keep my 08

After a few conversations I have abandoned my plans for a Discovery 3/4

I actually enjoy driving the Freelander

 

[BrokenBiker]

I keep seeing more reasons to keep my 08

After a few conversations I have abandoned my plans for a Discovery 3/4

I actually enjoy driving the Freelander

I enjoy driving it, I've not been bothered by the start stop system, there is enough evidence there that the system works, it's just not in a condition to work but I don't care for it anyway. It's comfy to drive, everything works and bar pulling the sill covers off I can't see any rust on it...only the sluggish start first thing that's letting it down at the moment although I've realised it didn't go anywhere on the 23rd then was sluggish Xmas eve, but started and was fine, only short trips, was then ok Xmas day, didn't go anywhere yesterday then sluggish again today so it may not be as bad as I first thought, daily use seems to keep it topped off enough, but it needs changing either way, my new job is a smidge further on the commute so don't want to be worrying that the car won't start after 3 days parked in the yard with a 38 mile trip home.

May invest in a jump pack just incase though

 

[Kayos]

I was ready to replace the battery, before spending money I checked it over, found the positive terminal loose and the battery clamp floating around doing nothing

Rectified both of them and no longer having battery issues

No stop/start (or dpf on mine)

 

[BrokenBiker]

I was ready to replace the battery, before spending money I checked it over, found the positive terminal loose and the battery clamp floating around doubt nothing

Rectified both of them and no longer having battery issues

No stop/start (or dpf on mine)

Firs thing I checked was the terminal connections and the starter connection as well.

It does all point to a slowly dying battery.

I am very glad the dog on mine has been removed though

 

[Turbo]

I'll be putting a normal battery on it for now while I look into it as need the car daily. Once I've figured out if the start stop has been disabled or not I'll buy a battery accordingly

As @hotponyshoes has pointed out you cannot just slap a normal battery on a car designed to use an AGM stop start battery.

It's not just a matter of switching off the stop start. The charging system is set up to charge the battery at a higher rate and voltage to get the battery back to full capacity asap.
Switching off the start stop doesn't change the charging system.

Fitting a standard battery will mean it will be getting overcharged at a higher voltage. That will severely shorten the life of the battery.

You mention getting a jump start pack. If you add the cost of that to the cost of a normal battery it will be more than the price of the correct battery!

Not sure about your location but are there any decent local autospares or autoelectrics places near you?
I was able to buy an original fitment Varta Agm battery for our Golf locally for £140, online shops were quoting £200. Carriage on batteries is expensive, if you can avoid that it saves money.

 

[BrokenBiker]

As @hotponyshoes has pointed out you cannot just slap a normal battery on a car designed to use an AGM stop start battery.

It's not just a matter of switching off the stop start. The charging system is set up to charge the battery at a higher rate and voltage to get the battery back to full capacity asap.
Switching off the start stop doesn't change the charging system.

Fitting a standard battery will mean it will be getting overcharged at a higher voltage. That will severely shorten the life of the battery.

You mention getting a jump start pack. If you add the cost of that to the cost of a normal battery it will be more than the price of the correct battery!

Not sure about your location but are there any decent local autospares or autoelectrics places near you?
I was able to buy an original fitment Varta Agm battery for our Golf locally for £140, online shops were quoting £200. Carriage on batteries is expensive, if you can avoid that it saves money.

My alternator is chucking out 14.1v, and looks like a completely standard alternator...no different to the one on the Jag and I can find no mention of any smart charging features on this car. There is nothing available for telling it there has been a new alternator as I would expect with a smart charging system either.

The jump pack isn't as a crutch for using a normal battery, it's as a back up for the car being parked up while I'm away with work.

Only reputable auto electrics place near me doesn't sell anything except services and diagnostics.

Halfords is about the only place that will test/replace a battery and id rather eat boiled leather than deal with them on that level.

 

[Ubique]

All FL2's have 'smart' alternators, the single thin wire on the back is a LIN connection, the charge rate is controlled by the Engine Control Module based upon external temperature & battery monitor signals broadcast from the Body Control Module, along with calculations internal to the ECM regarding starter motor temperature, duty cycle and start count.
As mentioned above, it 'expects' to be charging an autostop-rated battery, so will throw 'extra volts' it's way to encourage fast recharge. Doing this to a standard AGM will promote ageing and early reduction of capacity.
The alternator (if replaced) can only be like-for-like, there is no calibration routine for it, only the BMS reset when you have the battery replaced - even then, the BMS will adjust over time without a reset.

 

[Trevorleach]

I keep seeing more reasons to keep my 08

After a few conversations I have abandoned my plans for a Discovery 3/4

I actually enjoy driving the Freelander

Wise man indeed avoiding the d3 and 4 models.

 

[Turbo]

My alternator is chucking out 14.1v, and looks like a completely standard alternator...no different to the one on the Jag and I can find no mention of any smart charging features on this car. There is nothing available for telling it there has been a new alternator as I would expect with a smart charging system either.

The jump pack isn't as a crutch for using a normal battery, it's as a back up for the car being parked up while I'm away with work.

Only reputable auto electrics place near me doesn't sell anything except services and diagnostics.

Halfords is about the only place that will test/replace a battery and id rather eat boiled leather than deal with them on that level.

If your car has start stop it will have a smart charging system.
You can't tell from a one off measurement of battery voltage. You need to constantly monitor it over a long journey. You could hook up a voltmeter and get someone to watch it as you drive.

 

[Robotstar5]

There should be a second, smaller battery to support vehicle systems whilst autostop is restarting the engine, if that is depleted or defective, autostop will not turn off the engine.
The chemistry of the battery should be changed like-for-like, otherwise you can damage the new battery, either by under or overcharging it.

I always wondered why they mounted a second smaller battery not far from the main battery in Range Rovers, now I know

 

[sg66]

Not all start stop have second battery, with start stop you often have smart charging, swapping to the wrong type and not re setting the battery info can and dies lead to premature battery failure, my dad did this twice on his fiat.......

 

[Ubique]

I always wondered why they mounted a second smaller battery not far from the main battery in Range Rovers, now I know

View attachment 524663

A defective aux. battery on L405/494 can cause all kinds of seemingly unrelated 'faults' - heated/cooled seats not working, audio volume limitations, raised idle speed etc., it won't always throw a DTC but checking the terminal voltage at rest will give it away. Funnily enough I had one the other day where the remote lock/unlock wouldn't work, it'd start fine - as well as the locks not operating from the remote or buttons in the car, when you drove it you could hear the drive-away locking briefly locking then unlocking. Replaced the aux. battery in your photo and everything worked as expected. It wasn't a 'glitch', but intended behaviour, if the car was involved in a collision the BCM uses the aux. battery to power the emergency unlock in case the main battery was damaged. Not enough power in the aux battery = locks not locking. It's a bit like forced misfire then shutdown on diesels, it provokes the driver into getting the cause looked at, so in that sense, it's a good strategy.

That photo looks like an L462 - pretty much the same as L405/494 but the seat mount brackets give it away!

 

[Ubique]

Wise man indeed avoiding the d3 and 4 models.

Well, 'it depends' One of my Sons has my D3 - owned from new, serviced with the correct oil spec but worked hard - currently just shy of 200k miles, there's a D4 in work with 497k miles on it (ex-HA), recently had a park brake module replaced elsewhere, it came to us with no fuel level showing and a forced shutdown every 90 seconds... The park brake module is made from 2nd grade Chinesium and refusing to broadcast or pass CAN data, so the ECM isn't getting any fuel tank levels, assumes worst case & forces a shutdown!
The engine runs sweet-as, much better than I thought it would TBH

So as I've always thought, treat the TDV6 like women - treat 'em mean, keeps 'em keen....

There is no way I'd buy a 2nd-hand 3.0l TDV6 though, it'd be like buying a hand grenade with a loose pin....

 

[roblane65]

Just an aside it may be worth getting the starter off and checking the solenoid terminals as they wear one of the signs can be slow starting as it's not getting full power or they wear to the point of no crank at all

Just a thought but may not be your issue at all .

 

[BrokenBiker]

Just an aside it may be worth getting the starter off and checking the solenoid terminals as they wear one of the signs can be slow starting as it's not getting full power or they wear to the point of no crank at all
View attachment 524667View attachment 524668
Just a thought but may not be your issue at all .

I had a brief look at the starter, but it's only the first start after being parked up for a day, once it's started the first time it's fine all day.

Battery on order arriving Tuesday apparently